Bikesure_adrianflux

Alternator wire burn out?

Bitza

platinum with diamond studs member ;-)
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Jul 27, 2006
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Poole
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M900ie
Hi all, can anyone explain to me why my alternator wires should overheat? I've had it happen twice now, it's a three wire (3 phase?) device 2007ish, all the wires are yellow can you get them the wrong way round? I use a regulator to suit the lithium battery. It's been just one wire that overheats. Any thoughts gratefully received. IMG_20260122_142425.webpIMG_20260122_142339.webp
 
EDIT: I got that completely backwards, having written V=IR on a piece of paper and played with the numbers. I guess it must just be the heating effect of the high resistance connection. Either way that connector is a well known issue.

(if i understand this right: corrosion in the connector causing high resistance and localised overheating. the regulator is allowing way more current than the wires can handle as it tries to overcome the high resistance and maintain the right voltage.)
 
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I've never had this problem, but I solved it anyway :geek: Replace the white connector with three separate bullet connectors. Isolate them well from each other.
 
Well, I'm no electrician so my comments must be taken with caution, BUT the consensus of opinion seems to be that a major part of the problem centres around the resistance across the connection block in your picture.
It may be borderline ok when in perfect condition but the slightest deterioration due to eg corrosion or moisture increases its resistance to the point where it overheats ... at which point it deteriorates further and rapidly until it burns out.
Now, as I said, I'm no electrician but I can relay my own experience, as follows.
Shortly after I bought my M750, with only a couple of thousand miles on the clock, I was caught in a torrential downpour on my way to Brands Hatch for a BSB meeting. This would be about 2005 ish.
On returning to the bike after the racing, I found battery acid (from the liquid filled 16ALA2 battery) dribbled all down the left side of the bike, with damage to the paintwork on both the frame and the alternator cover.
Surprisingly, the bike managed the return journey home with no obvious issues and, perhaps foolishly, I replaced the missing battery overflow tube, repainted the alternator cover and thought little more about it.
Not long after that I was riding locally and pulled up at a tee junction, blipped the throttle (for no real reason) while waiting to pull out and heard metallic pinging noises coming from under the petrol tank.
I pulled over to the side of the road and lifted the tank to find four of the six battery filler caps had blown off the battery, which had boiled itself almost completely dry.
I replaced the caps which, luckily, were at the bottom of the battery tray and again, unbelievably, the bike limped the couple of miles home at low revs.
On inspection, the connector which you have pictured was corroded and a little burned and (again, somewhat stupidly) I cleaned it up and refilled the battery and found that everything worked well enough to enable me to properly test the charging system.
These tests pointed to a failed reg/rec so I replaced it with an Electrex unit, but continued to use the old connection block, which only showed minor damage .. the sort that you could just about say was cosmetic only.
A couple of weeks later, on a short trip just a mile down the road to the stainless bolts shop, I could smell burning. The bike was reluctant to start after coming out of the shop but eventually it fired up and it rode home ok (just a mile or so).
On inspection, the connector block was totally melted.
At this point I decided to hardwire the alternator connections (three yellow wires) using homemade copper crimps covered in glue-lined shrinkwrap tubing. I also rerouted the wires so that I could get my hand to the new crimped and sealed connectors to feel for any heat in them.
I never felt any overheating.
By now the bike had covered about 5000 miles at a rough guess.
Since then I have covered a further 30,000 miles, without the slightest sign of a problem. Possibly 20,000 of those miles have been with a lithium (LiFePO4) battery fitted, still using the Electrex reg/rec (ie without replacing it with the Shindengen upgrade which is often recommended).
It has been totally fine all that time (including a few wet rides, notably the biblical downpour we rode through while crossing Dartmoor on the Coast-to-Coast run some years back).

Like I said twice before, I'm no electrician but all that seems to me to point pretty conclusively to the issue being the unsuitability of the cheapo connection block which Ducati fitted as original equipment.
Hardwiring seems to cure it but if you would prefer a removeable connection block then my notes from back then list a "Delphi Metri-Pack 630 series" sealed connector rated at 46amps which I was considering fitting. These used to be available from "Kojaykat" but I think they may have since gone out of business. There will surely be an alternative supplier though.
But the crimped and sealed hardwiring has worked fine for me so I've not bothered going further.
Gazza will probably recommend gold crimp connectors, but I've not found them to be necessary.
I made my copper crimps by rolling thin copper sheet around the shank of a small drill bit. Two wraps makes a tidy crimp which withstands the squeezing nicely.
Using such (naked) crimps means you can crimp them up and then cover with undamaged shrinkwrap, rather than the one piece covered crimps where the act of crimping damages the shrinkwrap outer.
I avoided soldering because such connections can often fail at the point where the stiff soldered portion meets the flexible unsoldered strands .. and also perhaps due to concern that any flux residue would cause future corrosion.
The glue-lined shrinkwrap not only seals out the moisture but also supports the joint off the insulation covering.

Like Rob said ... while I was typing this.

ps. I don't think its possible to get the three wires the wrong way round.
Better electricians than myself will hopefully confirm.
 
Okay. Let's try and put this simply so you understand.

That standard plastic "connector" block is the biggest piece of unbagged bagshite on any motorcycle and the cause of your problem. So that's the first thing to go. (looks like it already has anyway!)

The burning /hot cables are caused by a high resistance connection.
A high resistance connection may be because of corrosion, a loose connection or inadequate cable thickness for the current.

The three Yellow cables can be connected to any other Yellow cable. Order not important.

Jeff has suggested a hard wired crimp connection with good heat-shrink insulation.. Fine.
As he mentioned I recommend Gold Bullet connectors. (Not crimps.)
I use 4mm Gold bullet connectors (I think they're good for 50amps?) as used on model cars and aeroplanes. Available from any good RC model shop or online.
I solder mine on and then make sure the cables are carefully tied down either side of the connection.
Heat-shrink is way the best insulation for these and I take the extra precaution of staggering the connections in the bundle so no two connections line up and sit together, it makes a slimmer bundle and decreases the chance of a short.
Check the connectors inside and out annually. The great thing about Gold is that it doesn't corrode. It also gives a very clean connection which emits very little RF noise, not that that's needed on a bike but it does indicate a good connection.

Once you've connected your alternator and reg/rec properly it's a very good idea to test it.
I simply put a multimeter across the battery terminals with the engine running above 2000rpm and expect to see steady voltage in the region of 13 to 14 volts.
Anything over 15 volts means the regulator is cooked. Under 12 volts means it's not charging.
If the voltage jumps about and won't settle to a steady voltage of any sort then the rectifier is cooked.

Not sure how to tell if the battery is still serviceable if there have been reg/rec problems, but a good bike shop or battery stockist should be able to give it a health check.

I find those Gammatronix charge monitors to very good for early warnings of reg/rec problems. They have saved at least two batteries on my old bikes. (mainly because the very simple solid state reg/recs for British bikes are of rather variable quality!)
 
Well bugger have just replaced the connector block with the same. Thanks to all for the info.
 
The burning /hot cables are caused by a high resistance connection.
A high resistance connection may be because of corrosion, a loose connection or inadequate cable thickness for the current.
Exactly what Mr G said, they work loose over time and the resistance goes up and melts the circuit
 
It's the connecter, it's not exactly a high quality bit of kit and almost as good as the cheapo 'tamiya' syle connecters you see on nattery chargers, I use better in my RC models which mostly carry much less current.
The first problem is that it isn't sealed, not anywhere, so damp or even actual water can get in through the wire enteries or around the push fit parts. Copper, water and electric current = corrosion = heat.
The other problem is that if the resistance goes up a little the copper gets hot when you're running and then cools. The heating and cooling cycle makes the conducters soften (see annealing) so they contact less well increasing the resistance in a bit of a vicious circle.
If you're really unlucky the rising resistance will cause the current in the wires from the alternator to rise and then they can melt off their insulator and start earthing which can produce some spectacular sparking.

My experience of this is from a supersport where I thought a following car was flashing it's lights at me, and a monster that melted the whole plug into a blob of charred plastic
 
Both of my Ducatis have the single-phase alternator so only 2 wires and these are supposedly more prone to melting connectors etc. as each phase carries more current than in a 3-phase.

In fact my 916 did melt the connector many years ago and I replaced it with a similar type of connector, albeit slightly more heavy duty and, over the last 20 years it's been fine though, in hindsight I would do it differently now.

The connectors on my Monster are 2 simple bullet connectors, presumably original Ducati setup? and it has been fine. I think it's a better setup as the connection is more consistent on a round bullet connector.

I'm guessing they went with the square block connectors for a neater look, especially where there are 3 wires on the later bikes but they either didn't consider the connectors might not be up to the job or the change was cost-based? either way it could have been done better.

Some people hard-wire them but I like a means of unplugging as it makes servicing much easier, especially on the 916 due to the routing of the cable being in the 'V' of the cylinders (no doubt compounding the problem with the heat) so would recommend either a heavy duty waterproof connector or, to keep it simple bullet connectors and, given that gold is a better conductor then, gold bullets (do they work on werewolves?) if I was doing it again now.
 
I have been told that Gold is not actually as good a conductor as Copper, although not very far behind.
The beauty of Gold is that it doesn't corrode, so it gives it's best pretty much forever. Long after lesser metals have turned to Verdigris or rust.
No idea if Gold bullets work on Werewolves, that would be a question for Van Helsing I think.
 
Copper is indeed the best conductor and as Mr Gazza has said gold is only there to prevent corrosion.
 
could replace Copper with a superconductive element LOL .. ceramic connectors also work well ....
 
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