S2R 1000 clutch

Bitza · 29-03-2019, 06:09 PM

Hi all, Have just installed a recon S2R 1000 lump and have just bled the clutch. The problem I have is that it just doesn't feel right, I can feel the clutch starting to disengage but then it feels solid. Has anyone any helpful suggestions. Bitza

Mr Gazza · 29-03-2019, 06:50 PM

First thoughts would be that the pushrod length is wrong.
If this is the rod and slave that came with the engine then probably not wrong, but if you have used a slave or rod from your original motor then there's the chance of a mix up possibly?

I think the rod for your S2R motor should be 335mm.
The earlier 900 rods are 325mm
Aftermarket slaves such as Oberon come deep enough to take the 335 rod and supply a 10mm spacer so you can use the 325 rod.
If you are using the longer rod with the spacer, you will get the solid feel you report as it will be topping out the pressure plate and locking.
If there's an Oberon on there, try tapping it on something solid to see if a spacer comes out, and check the rod length too.
Could also possibly be the rod not going fully into the top hat in the pressure plate bearing for some reason, maybe the O-ring displaced in it or just full of something solid?

You could also have a pinned rod. The pin has to locate in anti-rotation slots in the slave. Later Ducati slaves have the slots and Oberon do too. If you don't have the slots the pin will have nowhere to live and will jam.

Some info here.. http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...t=oberon+slave

Final thought would be that your slave is knackered.. Not a polite thing to mention I suppose, but a possibility.

Edit… Forgot to mention that the pin can simply be knocked out if there are no anti-rotation slots for it.

slob · 29-03-2019, 07:36 PM

pressure plate slightly misaligned and catching the edge of the basket?

Bitza · 30-03-2019, 07:32 AM

Ahh well..Mr Gazza I think you may well have got this in one, because in my ignorance I've just bunged on the slave cylinder(unknown origin) I had knocking about, so I'm guessing I have the longer push rod and the short type slave or the right type with a spacer. So as always thanks for that, Bitza

Mr Gazza · 30-03-2019, 08:29 AM

As a very rough guide, the early slaves for the 325 rod have a circle pattern on the front, with an oblique line to imply a "D".
The later ones I think have a pattern like a giant Torx socket on the end. (Might be a couple of patterns?)
The longer rod was introduced in 2001 but didn't gain the pin until later, when the slots were introduced in the slave.
The rods are now supplied with pins @ 335 and the pins should be removed for the interim slaves.

Bitza · 02-04-2019, 05:14 PM

UPDATE

After further pratting around and closer inspection it appears that the problem is that the six clutch springs are becoming coil-bound after the pressure plate has moved about 1mm. Can anybody shed any light on this? Bitza

350TSS · 02-04-2019, 06:33 PM

Wrong springs? wrong caps? aftermarket pressure plate incompatible? Cannot think what else

Bitza · 02-04-2019, 07:54 PM

I think it's probably the springs, these are 38mm long with 7&3/4 turns(coils). If I slacken of the springs then there isn't a problem. What springs do people recommend? bearing in mind that this is a particularly torquey motor est as 80ft/lbs 105N/m. Bitza.

slob · 03-04-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

pressure plate slightly misaligned and catching the edge of the basket?

.
.

Bitza · 03-04-2019, 04:36 PM

Update, Have just compared clutch components with those on my 900ie lump. The springs are the same, but the spring cups on the S2R (marked "Ducati Performance) are 2mm shallower than those on the 900ie. Which would compress the springs 2mm more, and account for the springs becoming coil-bound. Anybody any guesses as to what these DP cups are intended for? Bitza

Flip · 03-04-2019, 07:55 PM

I seem to remember there being two variations of spring cups when I ordered mine but it was so long ago I can’t remember if they were for other model Monsters or other Ducati model fitments.

Darren69 · 04-04-2019, 08:23 AM

The shallow DP cups are for the slipper clutch, the pressure plate is different on those.

Bitza · 04-04-2019, 05:55 PM

OK, this is definitely my last post on this one. Two points first thanks to all for the feedback, and on the off chance that anyone else has a similar issue, my solution is very simple "to put washers (up to 2mm thick) in between the spring cups & the clutch centre pillars, so giving the same effect as deeper cups". Thanks again all, Bitza.

29-03-2019, 06:09 PM	#1
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	S2R 1000 clutch Hi all, Have just installed a recon S2R 1000 lump and have just bled the clutch. The problem I have is that it just doesn't feel right, I can feel the clutch starting to disengage but then it feels solid. Has anyone any helpful suggestions. Bitza __________________ Bitza

29-03-2019, 06:50 PM	#2
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,792	First thoughts would be that the pushrod length is wrong. If this is the rod and slave that came with the engine then probably not wrong, but if you have used a slave or rod from your original motor then there's the chance of a mix up possibly? I think the rod for your S2R motor should be 335mm. The earlier 900 rods are 325mm Aftermarket slaves such as Oberon come deep enough to take the 335 rod and supply a 10mm spacer so you can use the 325 rod. If you are using the longer rod with the spacer, you will get the solid feel you report as it will be topping out the pressure plate and locking. If there's an Oberon on there, try tapping it on something solid to see if a spacer comes out, and check the rod length too. Could also possibly be the rod not going fully into the top hat in the pressure plate bearing for some reason, maybe the O-ring displaced in it or just full of something solid? You could also have a pinned rod. The pin has to locate in anti-rotation slots in the slave. Later Ducati slaves have the slots and Oberon do too. If you don't have the slots the pin will have nowhere to live and will jam. Some info here.. http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...t=oberon+slave Final thought would be that your slave is knackered.. Not a polite thing to mention I suppose, but a possibility. Edit… Forgot to mention that the pin can simply be knocked out if there are no anti-rotation slots for it. __________________ Last edited by Mr Gazza; 29-03-2019 at 06:54 PM.. Reason: after thought.

30-03-2019, 07:32 AM	#4
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	Ahh well..Mr Gazza I think you may well have got this in one, because in my ignorance I've just bunged on the slave cylinder(unknown origin) I had knocking about, so I'm guessing I have the longer push rod and the short type slave or the right type with a spacer. So as always thanks for that, Bitza __________________ Bitza

30-03-2019, 08:29 AM	#5
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,792	As a very rough guide, the early slaves for the 325 rod have a circle pattern on the front, with an oblique line to imply a "D". The later ones I think have a pattern like a giant Torx socket on the end. (Might be a couple of patterns?) The longer rod was introduced in 2001 but didn't gain the pin until later, when the slots were introduced in the slave. The rods are now supplied with pins @ 335 and the pins should be removed for the interim slaves. __________________

02-04-2019, 05:14 PM	#6
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	UPDATE After further pratting around and closer inspection it appears that the problem is that the six clutch springs are becoming coil-bound after the pressure plate has moved about 1mm. Can anybody shed any light on this? Bitza __________________ Bitza

29-03-2019, 07:36 PM	#3
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,707	pressure plate slightly misaligned and catching the edge of the basket?

02-04-2019, 06:33 PM	#7
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Wrong springs? wrong caps? aftermarket pressure plate incompatible? Cannot think what else

02-04-2019, 07:54 PM	#8
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	I think it's probably the springs, these are 38mm long with 7&3/4 turns(coils). If I slacken of the springs then there isn't a problem. What springs do people recommend? bearing in mind that this is a particularly torquey motor est as 80ft/lbs 105N/m. Bitza. __________________ Bitza

03-04-2019, 04:36 PM	#10
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	Update, Have just compared clutch components with those on my 900ie lump. The springs are the same, but the spring cups on the S2R (marked "Ducati Performance) are 2mm shallower than those on the 900ie. Which would compress the springs 2mm more, and account for the springs becoming coil-bound. Anybody any guesses as to what these DP cups are intended for? Bitza __________________ Bitza

03-04-2019, 07:55 PM	#11
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	I seem to remember there being two variations of spring cups when I ordered mine but it was so long ago I can’t remember if they were for other model Monsters or other Ducati model fitments. __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

04-04-2019, 08:23 AM	#12
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	The shallow DP cups are for the slipper clutch, the pressure plate is different on those. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

04-04-2019, 05:55 PM	#13
Bitza Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Poole Bike: M900ie Posts: 468	OK, this is definitely my last post on this one. Two points first thanks to all for the feedback, and on the off chance that anyone else has a similar issue, my solution is very simple "to put washers (up to 2mm thick) in between the spring cups & the clutch centre pillars, so giving the same effect as deeper cups". Thanks again all, Bitza. __________________ Bitza