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Old 06-05-2020, 09:19 PM   #1
billy 192
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796 forks v harsh

Hi guys its me again. I have put 200 miles on my new bike (new for me). 2013 796
it goes really nice but the suspension does not give me confidence. The tyres are fairly new but the rear has worn in the middle.


Its only done 5800 miles.
The front end seems very hard and harsh you feel every small bump straight through the bars.

whilst going around corners left or right if it hits any bump it pushes out . I think I will change the oil as I am not sure what weight is in there. Am I correct in thinking that 7.5 is the correct weight oil?

Also I am changing the front sprocket to 14T as i find it hard work in traffic.

Billy
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:39 PM   #2
Ron1000
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Does the 796 have fully adjustable suspension? Might be worth going through a setup process for your liking.

Also have you checked the suspension is set to factory? Mines wasn’t when got it and the pre-load wasn’t even set the same in the forks. Simple things like that can help you before you get deeper into the setup.

Try the cable tie on the fork leg trick to see how much it compresses. You want to be using as much travel as possible but without hitting the bump stops.

As for the sprocket thing. Do you know if you’re running factory front and rear? I had 39t rear (factory) and 14t front…it was all I knew as it was on it when I bought it. By all accounts it’s a good setup. However some like a standard front 15t and to go up on the rear. I have recently done this and went to 42 rear. The difference is incredible.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:43 PM   #3
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Hello Billy.
Ducati forks do tend to be a bit on the hard side. I don't think you will do any harm at all by changing the fluid, I'm sorry I can't tell you how much of what oil to use but you will soon know at the rate at which threads are being replied at the moment.

That flat on the rear tyre is probably more to blame for the odd handling that anything on the forks or the whole front end. I would get that changed as soon as possible and then re-appraise the handling. In the mean time you will have the forks serviced and I think you will notice a big difference. You can then think about a front suspension tune up if you're still not satisfied.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:59 PM   #4
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The forks on my Evo were very disappointing and they were adjustable for preload, compression and rebound damping (on paper anyway!). So your non-adjustable ones must be even worse.

The springs in the Evo were progressive and gave a very 'crashy' ride. I'm guessing that the 796 ones are the same. If you're opening your forks up to change the oil, then consider swapping the springs for linear ones tailored to your weight.

You'll still be stuck with standard unadjustable damping of course, so perhaps an Andreani conversion might appeal?

For Showa forks
https://www.brooksuspension.co.uk/fo...t-showa-10-14/

For Marzocchi forks
https://www.brooksuspension.co.uk/fo...cchi-43-10-14/

If you're just replacing the oil, then the standard capacity is 500cm3 of 7.5w per leg.

Have a look at Chrisp.'s thread regarding fork upgrades:

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=51391

I followed his advice and now have a combination of K-tech and Maxton internals. It's definitely money well spent
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:31 PM   #5
billy 192
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Thanks Guys its great asking in the AM and reading the replies in the pm much appreciated.

so I will change the oil and see, if not happy then I will try the ANDREANI FORK CARTRIDGE KIT at £400 but not sure if that is all the bits cos on the web page it say do you want matching springs £85? but the box shows 2 springs and it says ALL internals.

And If i can get at my savings i will change the rear tyre it is bad. I think it has done most of its miles bolt upright as it was restricted lol.

the current sprocket set is standard 14 front and 39 rear. i have ordered a 14 front for now but when it needs chain and sprocket set chain i will go for the 15 and 42 (thanks Ron100)


I have pirelli diablo rosso corsa 2 at the mo, is it ok to just change the rear? or shall I bite the bullet and get a front also?

Thanks again
Billy
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:58 PM   #6
Ron1000
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if your front is fine then it’s fine. Just tread depth if ok then ok. I assume you’re matching F&R tho. I don’t recommend different.
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:09 PM   #7
billy 192
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Looking in the manual it says

474 mm (right leg)
349 mm (left leg)


and are they Showa or Marzocchi or do i find out when i strip them :-)


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Old 07-05-2020, 10:07 PM   #8
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Showa forks have the maker's name on the inner surfaces of the fork bottoms:



A copy of the manual including Showa forks is here:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...96.html#manual

P362 on covers fork refurbishment. The spec sheet says 500cm3 per leg. The detailed instructions say 500cm3 for one leg and 538cm3 for the other but it refers to both as 'left leg' so good luck working that one out! I can't imagine why the capacity would be different for each leg (unless perhaps compression damping is in one fork and rebound in the other).
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:26 PM   #9
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(for 696 at least) one leg is a traditional USD fork with damper rod, the other has some sort of cartridge
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Old 07-05-2020, 11:26 PM   #10
Luddite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy 192 View Post
Looking in the manual it says

474 mm (right leg)
349 mm (left leg)

and are they Showa or Marzocchi or do i find out when i strip them :-)

Billy
That 500/538cm3 oil figure I quoted was for the Showa forks, which suggests that the 474/349cm3 figures you mentioned must be for Marzocchis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slob View Post
(for 696 at least) one leg is a traditional USD fork with damper rod, the other has some sort of cartridge
You're right, slob, as these parts diagrams show:

MY2011 Note the two springs


MY2012 on Note the single spring


Have a look at this extract from a 2016 thread regarding Marzocchi forks http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=53285 (bear in mind it is four years old so the prices quoted may have changed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzi View Post
The 796 forks are a bit poop.

I spoke with Maxton recently and they said you can do various things with them, but by far the best thing is to get the bottoms machined
Quote:
"The forks on the Monster 796 are Marzocchi upside down forks, they are basically a cheap pair of upside down forks. Internally they are set up with the spring, rebound damping and compression damping in one leg and only a spring (with no damping) in the other leg.

The forks have a lot compression damping, especially when they move a small distance - over little bumps on the road. This shows itself by giving a very hard and twitchy ride. The springs in the forks are actually too soft so the bike dives a bit under braking. The Monster 796 forks also spring back at you when you let go of the brake, this is because there is not enough rebound damping. A lot of people also describe the front as being "vague" and not getting much feedback from the front end, this is a combination of the forks being over damped on compression and under damped on rebound and under sprung. The forks are not adjustable for damping or preload so there is nothing you can do to quickly try and improve the handling on the front end.

Unfortunately the damping system fitted to this fork will never work. Because of its design it will always either have too much compression damping or not enough rebound damping. To cure the handling problems you need to replace the fork internals so there is damping and springing in both legs. We recommend fitting our GP20 cartridges to the fork sliders. The GP20 cartridges are built to order so we valve and spring them to suit your rider weight, what you use the bike for and to suit the weight of the bike. They have springs, rebound damping and compression damping in both legs and are externally adjustable for rebound damping. The GP20 cartridges cost £365.00 + V.A.T per pair

To fit the GP20 cartridges you need to machine and modify one of the fork sliders. Because the fork does not having damping originally, there is no hole in the bottom of the fork to accept a cartridge. To machine a hole in the bottom slider costs £80.00 + V.A.T. To service the forks with new seals and fit the GP20 cartridges to the Ducati sliders cost an extra £140.00 + V.A.T.

The total cost to fit the GP20 cartridges to the Monster 796 fork sliders is £585.00 + V.A.T per pair of forks.
"
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:30 PM   #11
billy 192
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They are indeed Showa. Drained 500 from each leg and pretty clean red oil.
two different set of internals. One side compression the other rebound (i think)
Well refilled with 500cc of 7.5 in each. Plus ordered a new rear tyre.

i will try after i fit the tyre and see.

Thanks Billy
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Old 11-05-2020, 08:50 PM   #12
billy 192
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OK so talked to both company's today
Both said the bottom of one leg needed machining

Option 1
Brook suspension supply and fit Andreani Fork Cartridge Kit £700 with return P&P. When finished one leg will do the compression dampening and the will do the rebound both have adjuster on the top cap.

Option 2
Maxton Supply and fit a pair of GP20 Adjustable (Rebound damping only) £800 with return P&P or Adjustable Rebound damping and Compression damping £900 with return P&P.
they also mentioned that if they need to use heat to remove the fork bottom they will need to re powder coat both which will cost extra

I think option 1 is the one I will go for, it may only be £100 more but is £100 too much at the mo.

Billy
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Old 11-05-2020, 09:27 PM   #13
Luddite
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You could also get a quote from K-tech for a complete picture. Email Chris and explain what you want to achieve chris.Taylor@ktechsuspension.com

Also, do either or both Brook and Maxton include springs for your weight and riding style in their quotes? If not, I think you should budget for that too. In my opinion, it would be a false economy not to upgrade the spring(s) at the same time as I don't think you'd feel the full benefit of the improved damping if you keep the stock progressive spring(s).
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Old 11-05-2020, 09:39 PM   #14
billy 192
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sorry i forgot to say both with new springs to suit my weight

I was told that Ktec would be £400-£500 more but i will enquire


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Old 11-05-2020, 10:07 PM   #15
damien666
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@billy 192
This guy is very knowledgeable and also teaches the dark art of suspension.
https://www.reactivesuspension.com/
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