1100 Evo or 1000 DS?

[makemdan]

I'm going to take the plunge on a monster and choice betwwe the Evo and DS is what I have to make. I've ridden neither but owned a S2R800 and a S4r previously. The DS is local so I could try before I buy but the Evo is 200 miles away so I can't. Both dealers will take my Cbr650 in pex. The DS is 2k cheaper but the Evo looks gorgeous so I think it's the one for me. Power wise I guess it's better than the S2r but way short of the s4r which doesn't really worry me, - keeping both wheels on the ground shouldn't be a problem. Any advice or opinions would be most welcome

[Ron1000]

Very different looking machines and probably have wildly different handling characteristics. I’ve not ridden a DS but owned an evo for last 5 years, the evo; once fettled is an awesome machine, my particular example has been very good reliability wise and it’s had some tune work to fuel better…plus things like rearsets etc add up to a nice bit of kit.

I think because they look so different and will feel different to ride, push around, handle weight wise I’d definitely make the effort to test ride both.

[mickj]

I would say if you are set on buying a monster and those are your choices you should really ride both, ride the DS first then take the run out 200 miles and try the Evo. If you prefer the Evo buy it and ride home if not make sure it's a nice day and call it a ride out. Mistakes are often expensive so it should be worth it to get the right bike for you.

[Luddite]

Ah, the agony of choice!

I've owned both the DS 1000 motor, (in the shape of the S2R), and currently, (for ten years now), own an Evo. There's a generation between the two models and there are differences in engine, handling and electronics, (not to mention the obvious style change).

Engine
I have to say that, despite owning an Evo, the DS motor is probably the sweetest 2v twin in standard trim, certainly in the lower half of the rev range. The Evo engine, while having more power, is hamstrung by more stringent emission equipment and also by Ducati tuning it to hit the magical '100 hp' figure on, what was to be, the final and ultimate iteration of the air-cooled twin.

The emission restrictions only affect 'closed loop' running, i.e. below about 5k rpm and part throttle running. I don't know what your riding style is but, if you're constantly 'on it', you probably wouldn't consider it a problem. But, if you do any slow speed riding, town work or just cruising, the effect is very annoying. And not helped by the fact that Ducati fitted sportier cams, (with greater lift and overlap), plus a lighter flywheel, (about half the weight of the DS version). Also, with the Evo, you lose the dual plug heads, which help to minimise misfires at low rpm and therefore contribute to the DS's smoother low-speed running.

Other mechanical changes between the two include the Evo's lighter, wet, slipper-clutch versus the old-style dry clutch of the DS. Personally, I much prefer the action, (and silence!), of the Evo version.

Chassis
If you're a single-sided swinging arm aficionado like me, then that'll be a big plus for the Evo over the 1000. Overall, the 696/796/1100 models steer much more like 'traditional' Japanese bikes than the slower handling of the old-style Ducatis, with quicker turn-in and greater flickability. Still reassuringly stable mid-corner though.

Don't be overly-influenced by the Evo's supposedly fully adjustable suspension; twiddling the adjusters in the forks makes no apparent difference and the ride remains harsh on anything other than smooth roads. The progressively sprung Sachs rear isn't much better although changing the spring gives a quick and, relatively, cheap improvement.

Braking on the Evo is via radial calipers against the M1000's axial although, whether you'd notice much difference on the road is debatable.

Electronics
Perhaps the biggest change between the two models is in the electronics. The M1000 is very old-school - an immobiliser and some LCD digits in the dash and that's your lot. The Evo, although way behind current TFT wizardry, is a lot more modern. A fully digital LCD dash plus traction control and ABS, both of which can be disabled if you so choose.

Other stuff
The Evo and I think the M1000 have plastic tanks so can be vulnerable to swelling due to ethanol in the fuel. Whichever you choose, therefore, stick to ethanol-free Esso Synergy Supreme+ and use a fuel stabiliser if you leave fuel in the tank over winter. If the tanks have swollen, it'll be more noticeable on the M1000 and may show up as cosmetic damage. On the Evo, as the tank is hidden under plastic covers, you may not notice anything, although it would show up if you removed the tank, when you might struggle to line-up the mounting points on replacement.

What I like about the 696/796/1100 is the fact that you can easily change the look by swapping those plastic tank covers. (Have a look at doggy's constantly evolving colour schemes http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=57863).

[Luddite]

Conclusion
You might think from my criticisms of the 1100, that I'm rather down on the Evo, but that's not the case. If you address its shortcomings, it's a fantastic machine and, with the mods I've carried out to mine, it's the best Ducati I've ever owned. If there's only one modification you carry out, get the ECU reflashed by Neil at Cornerspeed. For a little over £200, it's the best value bang for your buck you can get and makes the bike much more rideable and enjoyable. You can see what I've done to motor and handling here: http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=55168

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=54450

As others have advised, try to ride both and let us know the outcome, (with pictures of course!).

Happy shopping!

[Darren69]

Personally my choice would be neither of those, but instead the 1100S if you can find one, has the DS motor and the styling of the Evo but with Ohlins suspension all round, Marchesini wheels and most of the stuff on the Evo but with the DS motor and traditional dry clutch.

[chris.p]

Evo all the way, but then I am bias'd, I own one

[bigredduke]

I would agree with Luddite (very comprehensive critique there).

In standard trim, the DS engine is a peach, the Evo definitely needs an ECU reflash as it is a pig low down but once modified it's as it should be. The 1100S comes better equipped suspension-wise but personally I don't like the high-level exhaust arrangement.

Chances are, whichever one you choose you will modify to suit your tastes anyway!

[vince53]

Totally different handling , one's feels sat in, the other sat on , they turn in very differently, then as has been said all of the above * )

[Albie]

If I were going to relive the 1100 I would want as I always did have the 1100s with the evo exhaust. I actually prefer the evo but it needs better option. I'm surprised they never offered an evoS or R in the day.

[smiffyraf1]

ds for me. (good job as i have one) best engine of the old shape monsters. definitely a steel tank in them so no swelling issues. as has already been said the dual plugs per cyl make a big difference. a lot less lupy than my old 750 or 900. Its purely a looks based thing for me. im not against the new shape monster, just not for me.
Gun to the head though if i had to have a new shape the 1100 evo would be the way id go. Has to be air cooled in my view.

[makemdan]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I decided to go for the Evo and will probably go for the remap, depending on how it rides, having ridden a jap 4 for the last 2 years I may find the delivery OK. I take the point of try before buy but it just wasn't feasible to fit a 450 mile motorway round trip in so I've taken the risk. I bought my S4r sight unseen from a dealer in Worthing, also an Aprilia Falco from rite bikes, both exceeded expectations, fingers crossed this will be right as well.

Most of the injected bikes I've had I've fitted a power commander and imported remap files but am I right in thinking the Evo needs the actual chip to be flashed?

[Luddite]

Glad to welcome another member to the Evo family

You can fit a Power Commander but, unless you disable the lambdas, it will have no effect during closed loop running as the lambdas will constantly be trying to bring the Power Commander's AFR back to 14.7/1. Also, if you're going into the ECU to disable the lambdas, you might as well get the reflash too, (which also disables both the lambdas and exhaust butterfly valve).

The Rexxer reflash will also be cheaper than the Power Commander, especially if you factor in set-up time.

Let us know what you think once you've got it - and don't forget the photos!

[Darren69]

Give Nelly a ring!

[chris.p]

Nelly can be found here, defo the man to speak to.

http://cornerspeed.co.uk/