Duc owner looking for a first Monster

06-12-2016, 08:28 AM

Hello to all at UKMOC,

I'm a current Duc owner with a more track orientated collection - 600NCR TT2, Harris 750 & 600 F2 Pantah - and a love of all Italian V & L twin machinery. My last road V was an Aprilia 1000 & my next will be a 2 valve Monster....but which?

My experience is mainly of carbed bikes & I like the simplicity of early Monsters which are very similar mechanically to my '80s Pantah based bikes. I've had injected bikes such as the Aprilia 1000 & BMW K100RS & my one complaint about them all was bad throttle response at low speed/small throttle openings - a bit jerky & on/off which isnt idea in the wet and tiring if caught in slow moving traffic.

So my opening post is to ask about your experience of injected & carbed Monsters. My search has started with carbed, big valve 900s up to '96 but later injected models could be a consideration. Probably no later than '05 for styling reasons.

I'm in the Manchester area.
Cheers
Mike

slob · 06-12-2016, 10:27 AM

Hello and welcome.
1000ie 03-05 only, you'll get the same DS motor in s2r1000 but with a single sided swinger.
Throttle can be a bit on/off especially just above idle. Both share the same Marelli 5.9 ECU, the answer is to get it properly mapped/dynoed

Mr Gazza · 06-12-2016, 12:07 PM

Hello and welcome.

I'm right with you with your taste in motorcycles... Good man.

I had a very low mileage '98 carbed M900 when it was only three years old and now I run a 2000 M900Sie.

The '98 was smooth for the most part except when I let the revs go down too far. I didn't have a rev-counter, so that was a bit of a saving grace in not trying to keep any particular revs on... I just went by ear and everything was fine. A bit of clutch slipping was needed at walking pace in traffic and the like. All Monsters seem to be a bit like that though, they tend to be high geared... It's not a big problem.

My injection 900 is a slightly different animal. Instant pick up from any speed provided I am not in 6th at 20mph (why would you?).
I would not describe it as jerky in any way, but it is very crisp, much more so than the carb version and much more power too.
Carful throttle control is always needed at low speeds and low revs with any machine and the ie is no different except that there's a rev-counter to confuse your ears, it needs to show no lower than about 2000rpm or the chain will start letting it's presence be felt.

The sub 2000rpm area of all Monsters will always be the hardest to set up for, it's just slightly different ways to do this for Carbs or injectors... The chain is important for both (as you will know)

Having had both I prefer My Sie. I like it very much.

I agree with Slob too...If you have an M900 or M900ie on your shopping list, then definitely add a M1000 to that, preferably an M1000Sie.

06-12-2016, 12:40 PM

greetings

check out threads for evo1100 - lots on low running and how to improve EFI

fretless

06-12-2016, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the info so far. The low down tractability on my Aprilia was particularly bad if you got caught in too high a gear at low speed. 3rd was the "30 limit" gear. No flywheel to smooth the delivery under 3k but that did mean pick up was instant when you were in the right gear at the right revs & road speed. My "old school" roots in Brit twins that would pull in top from tickover were hard to shake off.

My TT2 has NCR7 cams & the power delivery with them begins at 6k, anything less showing & it bogs so it'll be a relief to ride something rather less demanding!

I'll add to my "short list" the ie machines you both mention. Looking at whats on the market he early 900s are getting quite expensive so the later ie bikes might be even better value for money.

Cheers
Mike

Mr Gazza · 06-12-2016, 01:47 PM

Brit Twins Eh? So we are definitely on the same page.... I had lots of those.

I once saw 500rpm on the tach' in gear, on my TR6P (single carb 650 Triumph, ex Police).

It purred away from that too with no clutch work and up a very slight incline.

I too had to adjust that expectation out when The Ducatis came along. But they beat the old 'uns hands down in every other respect.... I don't think you will be very long falling very much in love with a 900 Monster (Or 1000)

btw I also know what a NorVin is, but I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh.
We like pictures on this forum, especially interesting old Ducatis...

Try tinypic or postimage to host your pictures. Just paste up the line of text "For forums and message boards" onto your post.

utopia · 06-12-2016, 02:12 PM

Gotta say ... I love my carby 750.
You may want more though (or at least, think you do).
But if a test ride comes up, I'd suggest taking one out.
Motor is nicely tractable and wet clutch is easy to live with.

Also, with the carbed monsters, carb icing is an issue if you ride it anytime after October.

06-12-2016, 03:51 PM

Brit twins - still got my first "big bike", a '59 Norton Domi but its got more in common with an industrial engine than any bike made in the last 25 years. Had all the Norton twins including the 850 Commando...which had all the faults of the Domi & a few more unique to it. Charming old nails suitable for the odd potter about in the height of summer on the backroads. I'm looking for a bike to use on todays roads from Mway to unclassified....and less (daren't say no) need for a bag of spanners & spares on every spin out.

The capacity question is a good one. Do I need 900? Probably not. Top end doesnt really concern me (90 on a naked bike is more than enough for me) but I do like "a bit in hand" & love a bike with plenty of "midrange" poke.

Couple of pix of my current Ducs & Norvin should show up on this link:

https://postimg.org/gallery/vcikkly6/

utopia · 06-12-2016, 04:09 PM

Hmmm...
90 on a naked bike is enough for me too ... apart from the occasional squirt on a particularly fast stretch.
And I am still pleasantly surprised by how much shove the 750 has when I give it the last quarter of throttle (which I otherwise seldom use) from 80/85.
I wouldn't want to encourage you to get something which may fall short of your needs but I can say that I've had my 750 for 10yrs now, its been my only big roadster during that period and I have no intention of ever parting with it and see no real need for a bigger motor (unless maybe I was contemplating a long distance jaunt on faster roads).

The carb icing is a real pain in the colder months though and I will be fitting Keihin FCRs, which I'm told are less prone to it.
Dosing the fuel with Pro.FST cures it, but only if you have some handy at fill-up time, so longer winter journeys can be a problem.

Pedro · 06-12-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Hello and welcome.
1000ie 03-05 only, you'll get the same DS motor in s2r1000 but with a single sided swinger.
Throttle can be a bit on/off especially just above idle. Both share the same Marelli 5.9 ECU, the answer is to get it properly mapped/dynoed

What Slob says, a well sorted 1000DS is a thing of joy, easy to get sorted too. One of Ducati's great engines

06-12-2016, 07:16 PM

And it just so appens ,that I have a 2006 S2R 1000 that I will be parting with shortly .
Better throttle control than the old M900ie I had before.

06-12-2016, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

Hmmm...
90 on a naked bike is enough for me too ... apart from the occasional squirt on a particularly fast stretch.
And I am still pleasantly surprised by how much shove the 750 has when I give it the last quarter of throttle (which I otherwise seldom use) from 80/85.
I wouldn't want to encourage you to get something which may fall short of your needs but I can say that I've had my 750 for 10yrs now, its been my only big roadster during that period and I have no intention of ever parting with it and see no real need for a bigger motor (unless maybe I was contemplating a long distance jaunt on faster roads).

The carb icing is a real pain in the colder months though and I will be fitting Keihin FCRs, which I'm told are less prone to it.
Dosing the fuel with Pro.FST cures it, but only if you have some handy at fill-up time, so longer winter journeys can be a problem.

Had a few issues with carb icing on my XT on the very cold mornings ( -8--10 deg C )
Pro FST has cured it . The XT has a twin choke carb ,one slide and the other diaphragm operated by engine vacuum ,and thats the culprit , diaphragms are just too good at keeping a steady high vacuum in the inlet tract and that causes the freezing .

06-12-2016, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumnagorrach

And it just so appens ,that I have a 2006 S2R 1000 that I will be parting with shortly .
Better throttle control than the old M900ie I had before.

A long way from me and maybe beyond my means but please mail me direct when you are thinking of selling:

mcgarry.mike@virgin.net

06-12-2016, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

And I am still pleasantly surprised by how much shove the 750 has when I give it the last quarter of throttle (which I otherwise seldom use) from 80/85.
I wouldn't want to encourage you to get something which may fall short of your needs but I can say that I've had my 750 for 10yrs now, its been my only big roadster during that period and I have no intention of ever parting with it and see no real need for a bigger motor (unless maybe I was contemplating a long distance jaunt on faster roads).

I have had an 80s 750 engine in a TT frame which had a good turn of speed on the track and was road registered. A good engine for the road having better mid range power than the 600 & a little more "up top" too.

Its rare to see a 750 Monster for sale - lots of 600/620 & 695/6/796/800s about but a big hole in the middle where the 750 sat. Are they so nice no one wants to sell them

Mr Gazza · 06-12-2016, 08:34 PM

Just spent quite a few minutes rolling my weary eyeballs all over the picture of your NorVin.... It's brilliant mate, can I borrow it?. I hope it's got a big open mega on the other side just like Ogri's.

06-12-2016, 08:28 AM	#1
norvin998 Guest Posts: n/a	Duc owner looking for a first Monster Hello to all at UKMOC, I'm a current Duc owner with a more track orientated collection - 600NCR TT2, Harris 750 & 600 F2 Pantah - and a love of all Italian V & L twin machinery. My last road V was an Aprilia 1000 & my next will be a 2 valve Monster....but which? My experience is mainly of carbed bikes & I like the simplicity of early Monsters which are very similar mechanically to my '80s Pantah based bikes. I've had injected bikes such as the Aprilia 1000 & BMW K100RS & my one complaint about them all was bad throttle response at low speed/small throttle openings - a bit jerky & on/off which isnt idea in the wet and tiring if caught in slow moving traffic. So my opening post is to ask about your experience of injected & carbed Monsters. My search has started with carbed, big valve 900s up to '96 but later injected models could be a consideration. Probably no later than '05 for styling reasons. I'm in the Manchester area. Cheers Mike

06-12-2016, 12:07 PM	#3
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,987	Hello and welcome. I'm right with you with your taste in motorcycles... Good man. I had a very low mileage '98 carbed M900 when it was only three years old and now I run a 2000 M900Sie. The '98 was smooth for the most part except when I let the revs go down too far. I didn't have a rev-counter, so that was a bit of a saving grace in not trying to keep any particular revs on... I just went by ear and everything was fine. A bit of clutch slipping was needed at walking pace in traffic and the like. All Monsters seem to be a bit like that though, they tend to be high geared... It's not a big problem. My injection 900 is a slightly different animal. Instant pick up from any speed provided I am not in 6th at 20mph (why would you?). I would not describe it as jerky in any way, but it is very crisp, much more so than the carb version and much more power too. Carful throttle control is always needed at low speeds and low revs with any machine and the ie is no different except that there's a rev-counter to confuse your ears, it needs to show no lower than about 2000rpm or the chain will start letting it's presence be felt. The sub 2000rpm area of all Monsters will always be the hardest to set up for, it's just slightly different ways to do this for Carbs or injectors... The chain is important for both (as you will know) Having had both I prefer My Sie. I like it very much. I agree with Slob too...If you have an M900 or M900ie on your shopping list, then definitely add a M1000 to that, preferably an M1000Sie. __________________

06-12-2016, 01:47 PM	#6
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,987	Brit Twins Eh? So we are definitely on the same page.... I had lots of those. I once saw 500rpm on the tach' in gear, on my TR6P (single carb 650 Triumph, ex Police). It purred away from that too with no clutch work and up a very slight incline. I too had to adjust that expectation out when The Ducatis came along. But they beat the old 'uns hands down in every other respect.... I don't think you will be very long falling very much in love with a 900 Monster (Or 1000) btw I also know what a NorVin is, but I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh. We like pictures on this forum, especially interesting old Ducatis... Try tinypic or postimage to host your pictures. Just paste up the line of text "For forums and message boards" onto your post. __________________

06-12-2016, 08:34 PM	#15
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,987	Just spent quite a few minutes rolling my weary eyeballs all over the picture of your NorVin.... It's brilliant mate, can I borrow it?. I hope it's got a big open mega on the other side just like Ogri's. __________________

06-12-2016, 10:27 AM	#2
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,738	Hello and welcome. 1000ie 03-05 only, you'll get the same DS motor in s2r1000 but with a single sided swinger. Throttle can be a bit on/off especially just above idle. Both share the same Marelli 5.9 ECU, the answer is to get it properly mapped/dynoed

06-12-2016, 12:40 PM	#4
fretless Guest Posts: n/a	greetings check out threads for evo1100 - lots on low running and how to improve EFI fretless

06-12-2016, 12:55 PM	#5
norvin998 Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the info so far. The low down tractability on my Aprilia was particularly bad if you got caught in too high a gear at low speed. 3rd was the "30 limit" gear. No flywheel to smooth the delivery under 3k but that did mean pick up was instant when you were in the right gear at the right revs & road speed. My "old school" roots in Brit twins that would pull in top from tickover were hard to shake off. My TT2 has NCR7 cams & the power delivery with them begins at 6k, anything less showing & it bogs so it'll be a relief to ride something rather less demanding! I'll add to my "short list" the ie machines you both mention. Looking at whats on the market he early 900s are getting quite expensive so the later ie bikes might be even better value for money. Cheers Mike

06-12-2016, 02:12 PM	#7
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,562	Gotta say ... I love my carby 750. You may want more though (or at least, think you do). But if a test ride comes up, I'd suggest taking one out. Motor is nicely tractable and wet clutch is easy to live with. Also, with the carbed monsters, carb icing is an issue if you ride it anytime after October.

06-12-2016, 03:51 PM	#8
norvin998 Guest Posts: n/a	Brit twins - still got my first "big bike", a '59 Norton Domi but its got more in common with an industrial engine than any bike made in the last 25 years. Had all the Norton twins including the 850 Commando...which had all the faults of the Domi & a few more unique to it. Charming old nails suitable for the odd potter about in the height of summer on the backroads. I'm looking for a bike to use on todays roads from Mway to unclassified....and less (daren't say no) need for a bag of spanners & spares on every spin out. The capacity question is a good one. Do I need 900? Probably not. Top end doesnt really concern me (90 on a naked bike is more than enough for me) but I do like "a bit in hand" & love a bike with plenty of "midrange" poke. Couple of pix of my current Ducs & Norvin should show up on this link: https://postimg.org/gallery/vcikkly6/

06-12-2016, 04:09 PM	#9
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,562	Hmmm... 90 on a naked bike is enough for me too ... apart from the occasional squirt on a particularly fast stretch. And I am still pleasantly surprised by how much shove the 750 has when I give it the last quarter of throttle (which I otherwise seldom use) from 80/85. I wouldn't want to encourage you to get something which may fall short of your needs but I can say that I've had my 750 for 10yrs now, its been my only big roadster during that period and I have no intention of ever parting with it and see no real need for a bigger motor (unless maybe I was contemplating a long distance jaunt on faster roads). The carb icing is a real pain in the colder months though and I will be fitting Keihin FCRs, which I'm told are less prone to it. Dosing the fuel with Pro.FST cures it, but only if you have some handy at fill-up time, so longer winter journeys can be a problem.

06-12-2016, 07:16 PM	#11
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	And it just so appens ,that I have a 2006 S2R 1000 that I will be parting with shortly . Better throttle control than the old M900ie I had before.