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Old 04-08-2020, 11:50 PM   #1
Nasher
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Instrument Repairs

Hi all

Posting here as the instruments on my 2003 1000SSie DS are the same as those used on a lot of Monsters, with a link to the ECU for Immobiliser etc - Image below.



The top left and Middle warning lights, High Beam and Indicators, are no longer working and are PCB mounted LEDs not bulbs.
The actual High Beam and the indicators work fine, just not the warning lights.

It's not as simple as a broken wires to the instruments as the indicators are driven by a flasher unit on the PCB, so the issue is internal to the instrument set not external.

First question, has anyone seen this before?

I've stripped them down as far as I can, but can't remove the PCB to check it without removing the needles from the Speedo and Tacho shafts.
Do they just pull off does anyone know?

Or does anyone know of a specialist that may be able to fix them for me?
I work in the electronics industry, so have a good chance of getting them fixed if I can remove the needles.

Thanks

Nasher
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasher View Post
I've stripped them down as far as I can, but can't remove the PCB to check it without removing the needles from the Speedo and Tacho shafts.
Do they just pull off does anyone know?
Me no expert, but I've never seen a speedo or tach needle that wasn't just an interference fit on the shaft... So if you pull the needles straight - eg perpendicular - off while supporting the shaft, should be fine.

He said, confidently...

A dab of something that sets (but not like stone) might be required to stop them slipping on the shafts after. Loctite blue maybe?

Delicate work though; given how much of a hassle they would be to replace, I'd probably try to find a shop that rebuilds instruments to do it. Or failing that, an old-school watchmaker.

A quick Google throws up some people to talk to, maybe:

https://www.autotronics.co.uk/repair...cluster-repair
http://www.guagerepairs.com/

No affiliation or experience with either.

Last edited by spuggy; 05-08-2020 at 12:15 AM.. Reason: Add/fix links
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Old 05-08-2020, 08:58 AM   #3
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But is it that the shafts will rotate back past the stops without the needles on?

I'd say if there were no little stop posts for the needles then you'd be fine? so long as the shafts don't move during the repair.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:10 AM   #4
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Thanks Guys.

There are no stops for the needles, so would just need to ensure they go back on in the same place.

It's a little daunting as the stepper motors behind are just plastic and clipped to the PCB as well as the soldered legs. so I might be pushing my luck pulling them off.

I'm really interested to hear if anyone else has had this issue, as having taken them apart there is no sign of water ingress, and they are of course well protected behind the screen and front panel.

Spuggy, your Autotronics link looks very interesting, as they actually have the 1000SS clocks listed.
Think I'll call them.

Nasher.
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:02 AM   #5
Darren69
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I recently had erratic warning lights and immobilizer sometimes not disarming on my S4. Turned out the big square plug in the back had somehow worked its way partially out. One of the rubber bushes/bolts holding the clocks to the front sub frame had sheared. I replaced bush and pushing the plug firmly back in solved the issue, thankfully!
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:14 AM   #6
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Thanks Darren, I wish it was that easy.

I've had the instruments off a couple of times now to check the wiring and it seams OK.

The Indicator warning light must be internal on the PCB as they actually work fine and the flasher unit is built into the PCB, not a separate unit.

Worst case scenario is for me to build a separate indicator circuit using a flasher unit and bodge new LEDs for the high beam and indicator circuits into the instrument panel. there's enough room to get them in with a separate loom.

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Old 05-08-2020, 10:19 AM   #7
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I have taken a couple of clocks apart (but not Ducati) and the needle is just an interference fit. I cant imagine the Italians would be that different. Lever them off straight with two small spoons.
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:26 AM   #8
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Thanks mjgt

Unfortunately the spoons trick won't work as the dial behind is a very thin flexible printed film probably no more than 0.25mm thick, and with fresh air behind it. So can't be levered against.

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Old 05-08-2020, 10:54 AM   #9
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Perhaps use a watch/clock hands puller?

Something like this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watch-Rep....c100012.m1985
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasher View Post
Thanks Darren, I wish it was that easy.

I've had the instruments off a couple of times now to check the wiring and it seams OK.

The Indicator warning light must be internal on the PCB as they actually work fine and the flasher unit is built into the PCB, not a separate unit.

Worst case scenario is for me to build a separate indicator circuit using a flasher unit and bodge new LEDs for the high beam and indicator circuits into the instrument panel. there's enough room to get them in with a separate loom.

Nasher
Yea, I was lucky I guess. I expected the worse though, broken wires or broken clocks. I don't know when the silentblock broke I only noticed it a few months ago and the bike has not been run this season. So it may have been like that a while.

I remember reading an article somewhere on here or the web a while back about changing the clock faces which involves removing the needles. I can be done but is very fiddly and easy to break them IIRC.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:59 AM   #11
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As the shaft doesn't stick out of the needle a puller isn't going to be much help, then if the stepper motor is shot then it doesn't matter too much if you do just tug it off. If it isn't then you might break something in which case the steppers are going to be fairly standard items, it's just finding which 'standard'. I guess any instrument panel that uses steppers, a good car cluster repairer ought to have these as off the shelf parts.
I did swap one out from an acccident damaged cluster to fix a speedo on a 750IE and the needles did pull off fairly easily(ish)
The lights are from memory SMD LED's so tiny surface soldered items with a light guide up to the coloured lens.
Yes they are replaceable but removing and refitting SMD's is a right PIA, again a cluster repairer could probably do this or someone good with mini hot air blowers and tiny soldering irons in the electronics industry ought to be able to.

I'd find someone to do it for you
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:32 PM   #12
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The daft thing is that I have access to a shop floor full of ladies who are most adept at swapping out Surface mount LEDs and other components, we do 1205 size all the time to correct for LED brightness manufacturing tolerances in the high end stuff we manufacture. The LEDs that come off tape and reel on the PCB stuffing machines vary too much unit to unit at times and the difference can be seen if you are fussy.
And I could pop into our repair department to look at the PCB/A under a microscope to diagnose any dry joints or broken tracks myself.

But, I don't think I'd want any of them to remove the Needles.

As you've said the stepper motors look really easy to damage, and they both work perfectly at the moment.

A specialist instrument cluster repair place looks like the best bet despite the resources I have access to.

Nasher.
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickj View Post
The lights are from memory SMD LED's so tiny surface soldered items with a light guide up to the coloured lens.
Not only are these tricky to replace without a hot-air rework station as you say, I also think it's fairly unlikely that these "just failed".

In other words, yes, the LEDs may or may not have blown - but if they did, that's probably in indication of something else that needs to get fixed...

I'm all for DIY guys - but are these even available from Ducati anymore? I think for the money its kind of a no-brainer to use an instrument specialist...
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:59 PM   #14
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They are available, and despite being 583euros from Stein Dinse are actually a bit cheaper than I thought they would be.
But of course there is no way I'd pay that.

I'm in contact with Autotronics, but they want images to see if it is possible to repair them!
If I could strip it down enough to take a picture for them I wouldn't need their services!!

Nasher.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:15 PM   #15
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http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=58043

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