UK Monster Owners Club Forum » .: Technical :. » Engines, Clutch, Gears » S4 running pig-rich

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-09-2020, 06:25 PM   #16
Darren69
Transmaniacon MOC
 
Darren69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Sutton In Ashfield
Bike: Multiple Monsters
Posts: 6,011
Yea, good point Jerry. I think the S4 throttle bodies are the same non-linear type as 916 so to TPS reset you need to use a V meter and a NOT TPS reset through any diagnostic software otherwise they will be no good. i would test and rule out the other stuff first though, plugs, leads and general electrical maladies etc.
__________________
Roast Beef Monster!

Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers!

S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage
Darren69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2020, 02:24 PM   #17
jerry
Old Git
 
jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cricklade
Bike: Multiple Monsters
Posts: 2,795
bad low speed running , stalling motor is a classic symptom of out of alighnment TPS ,,
__________________
MONSTERMAN
jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2020, 04:51 PM   #18
spuggy
Registered User
 
spuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
So, given that I'm no longer embarrassed by my own stupidity (it's nice when you get there ), thought I'd update this as a cautionary tale...

Most of the symptoms continued exactly the same. Except, it also developed a new one where it would stop running entirely between 5-6K - exactly like ignition cut, all you could hear was induction noise - except you could get past it by using more throttle, and then it'd rev to red-line.

Which just seemed to make no sense at all. But it got worse and worse as the weather got colder. To the point where I became concerned about giving it close to full throttle, in case it suddenly pulled clean (which, luckily, it never did).

I looked at the TPS reset procedure, and wimped out on the grounds that you can only really do the first step without manometer, exhaust gas analyzer and something to read what the ECU is "seeing".

Booked it into Moto Rapido for them to look at it.

Decided on one last ride (it was a nice day). New symptoms: bike cuts onto one cylinder climbing hills, runs rougher and rougher until it dies. Bike will re-start and idle - but can't pull away, stalls letting the clutch out.

I can hear fuel in the tank, but pop the fuel cap to check - to see filler neck awash with rainbow-coloured water. Clearly the filler drain is blocked. Given torrential rain a couple of days before, dawns on me that the fuel is contaminated...

MR drain the tank, change the filter, put fresh gas in it, test-ride and report "bike starts and runs OK". To the point where they didn't even do the TPS reset malarky.

I'm initially a little skeptical. But I get it back and uh, yeh, actually, it really does....

Dammit... Talk about overthinking the problem, LOL... Drain tube must have been blocked for months, with every rain letting in more water - which of course, would just sit, trapped, at the bottom of the tank, no matter how much fresh gas you ran through it...
spuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2020, 07:05 PM   #19
Mr Gazza
Lord of the Rings
 
Mr Gazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norwich
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 5,766
I'm glad you've got it sorted now. It's always the simple little things that get overlooked.

I'm assuming that Moto Rapido unblocked the drain pipe as part of the procedure?
If not guitar strings are good for poking right down the internal metal pipes and rodding them out. Thick wire wound strings are best, but sometimes you have to start with thinnish strings until you can get one right through.
__________________
Mr Gazza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2020, 07:24 PM   #20
slob
.
 
slob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: East London
Bike: Multiple Monsters
Posts: 9,702
Occam's razor
slob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2020, 06:29 PM   #21
spuggy
Registered User
 
spuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
I'm glad you've got it sorted now. It's always the simple little things that get overlooked.
Apparently

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
I'm assuming that Moto Rapido unblocked the drain pipe as part of the procedure?
If not guitar strings are good for poking right down the internal metal pipes and rodding them out. Thick wire wound strings are best, but sometimes you have to start with thinnish strings until you can get one right through.
Huh, I was wondering how best to do that. Pity I haven't had any guitar strings around for 40 years or so now...

Moto Rapido would certainly have done the drain, if it weren't for the fact that they also alerted me to some sort of painted liner inside the tank lifting/bubbling very alarmingly. It also seeps by the tank hinge.

So they pretty much just advised "replacement tank required" and asked what I wanted to do - helpfully confirming that the tank can still be ordered from Ducati for an amount that had me actually larfing out loud, as opposed to typing "LOL" on the computer.

Unfortunately, I just figured out earlier that the very pretty (repainted) S4 tank I bought on Flea Bay, described as "excellent" condition looks pretty disappointing inside... Rust bits falling out, strange looking crunchy rust garden formations everywhere... So that's kind of a PITA, because certainly not the "swap the tank/hardware over" job I was expecting.

The fuel tipped out of my tank was very odd-looking, almost milky. With a appreciable amount of water and a lot of dirt settling out of it. I think MR probably just drained the tank and put some back, omitting most/much of the water... Amazingly, bike runs better than it ever has - even on that junk. So seems certain it had water in it all along...
spuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2020, 06:55 PM   #22
Grumpy
record breaker!!
 
Grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Peterborough
Bike: M1200R
Posts: 2,154
Leaking around the hinge is a common problem. Raising the tank using the hinge causes stress on this area. The plate fixing the hinge to the tank can be welded up.
The crap inside the tank sounds like a leak sealer. There have been issues were the ethanol can attack the leak sealer. Best option is to remove the sealer. Determine that the leak is only round the hinge, then repair.
__________________
It's not the destination, but the journey that matters
Definition of a motorbike, a devise for overtaking cars!
Grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2020, 07:27 PM   #23
Mr Gazza
Lord of the Rings
 
Mr Gazza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norwich
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 5,766
I'm about to re-string my Watkins Rapier, so I can send you the old strings if you have the need? Three bottom strings are wire wound.

The hinges go on the spot welds and leak beneath the plate that the hinge is (spot) welded to. The best solution is to braze all around the periphery of the plate. It's a bit tight at the very rear, so you sometimes have to do a little careful grinding to access the rear edge of the plate. It doesn't usually damage any visible paint as it will be covered by the saddle. (Remove the pump to do this.)

That will almost certainly burn off the sealer locally inside the hinge area. Any loose stuff elsewhere can be worried off by shaking the tank with nuts and bolts or stones in it.. Clean and count whatever you put in so you can count it out.

You might be able to tackle the rust in your spare tank by filling it with White vinegar or a solution of in water. Leave it for about a week and thoroughly rinse out. Cluct and brake cleaner makes a good final rinse as it is hygroscopic, so fetches out any residual water too.
__________________
Mr Gazza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2020, 10:38 PM   #24
spuggy
Registered User
 
spuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
Thanks guys - familiar with the hinge issue, as my 900ie tank developed a sizable leak at the hinge (as in, it would drip from the seam(!). First thing a sheet metal guy said was "that shouldn't be welded. Especially not spot-welded". Well, duh. Got it brazed all around the bracket it and sorted.

What's particularly annoying about this is that I have 2(!) spare 900ie 2000-2001 tanks that don't leak/aren't full of rust. Which won't work on the S4 for two reasons; the ST4 frame is wider, and the heads want more room (bottom is different).

Darn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
I'm about to re-string my Watkins Rapier, so I can send you the old strings if you have the need? Three bottom strings are wire wound.
Appreciate it! Save me buying any to use once..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gazza View Post
That will almost certainly burn off the sealer locally inside the hinge area. Any loose stuff elsewhere can be worried off by shaking the tank with nuts and bolts or stones in it.. Clean and count whatever you put in so you can count it out.

You might be able to tackle the rust in your spare tank by filling it with White vinegar or a solution of in water. Leave it for about a week and thoroughly rinse out. Cluct and brake cleaner makes a good final rinse as it is hygroscopic, so fetches out any residual water too.
I might call a few places Monday and see if vapor or shell blasting might be an option. But without cutting the tank in half, I'm somewhat pessimistic. Unless they have any long wands. Worth a shot.

For the rusty tank, yeh, filling it with vinegar was probably going to be the approach. Although I also understand it can take a few weeks to work - especially in colder weather. Really seems like someone put lipstick on a pig there...

The sealer in the original tank - never seen anything quite like it. It's like a grey, plastic-looking coating. And it's puckered/bubbled/lifted big-time. There's one area about 6"x8" (or 150mm x 200mm for the younger types) that's lifted at least an inch or two off the metal...

Almost looks like it wasn't prepped properly - or the fuel attacked it. I've never knowingly put ethanol in it - only Super Premium, which I understand doesn't usually have any in it. But I've no idea why it was done/when it bubbled/how long it lasted etc.

Unless someone has a spare 586.1.037.XXX tank, apparently fitted to:
  • Monster S4, 2001-2002 model years
  • Monster S4R, 2003-2004 model years
  • Monster 620, 2002-2003-2004 model years
  • Monster 800 , S2R 800, 2003-2004 model years
  • Monster 900 2002 model years
  • Monster 1000, 2003-2004-2005 model years

I'm clearly going to have to buy another, if I want to ride the bike in the interim. Which I kinda do, despite the weather.

Again, I find myself browsing Beater tanks, The Tank Shop and all the usual suspects - and even the desmo-racing carbon tanks - but delivery time for these is not on your side...
spuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2020, 12:42 PM   #25
crust
rattles when he walks
 
crust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: in the comfy chair,moved furniture around
Bike: M900
Posts: 1,065
My M900 tank had developed a leopard skin print due to being sat for a while.

I used a Bilt Hamber product - Deox.

Magic stuff, sorted the tank out beautifully, since then I've de-rusted a number of items and it get rid of even the most encrusted rust. It works quickly, my tank took a couple of hours, even thick rust is gone in an afternoon.

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...4&postcount=28

I've repaired a couple of tanks and use Silver Solder and a narrow nozzle map gas burner, it keeps the paint damage to a minimum.

I buy a small kit off ebay.
crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:13 PM.

vBulletin Skins by vBmode.com. Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.