Alternative headlamps...

[buzzbomb]

I've got a reflector from an old monster headlight that's in perfect condition that the glass was broken which I removed so it needs a new glass replacement plus bonding agent and it's free if any one wants it.

[Darkness]

The glass used to be available on its own as a BMW R75, 80 or 90 part.
There was no sealant on mine when I split it to clean the inside of the glass.

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Darkness

Any joy with the micro paisley?

Ah ... that was me.
No joy yet .. it kinda went off the main burner for a while.
But Gazza has provided me with a spare conversion ring for that very purpose.
You've jogged my memory now ... I'll look into it.

[Darren69]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Sorry Jerry I was going to post more details of the bulb but had to check out the insides of the old eyelids.!

It's this one. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-4-Side...72.m2749.l2649 You can put one in your bike and give the other to a mate.

As mentioned it is wired in the red box so that the dip is on all the time and the main is switched. That might account for the full spread of light. I wanted to try this out anyway by jiggering with the wiring on the bike, but now I don't need to.

There are loads of these H4 LEDs on ebay, nearly a matter of putting a pin in the page, as it's a bit of a minefield.

Thanks for that Mr Gazza. that's most useful. I notice they are out of stock and looking at most of the others of similar type they all have a much deeper heatsink so maybe they won't fit if it's tight with those ones? I plan on putting one of these in my standard unit if I get issues with the HID in the MOT then will most likely upgrade to the Cibie that seems a popular choice with one of your adapters when funds allow.

That's some heatsink, I take it these get very hot in use?

[Mr Gazza]

You're welcome Darren.
I noticed they are out of stock too, which is frustrating, hopefully they will soon be re-stocked.
There doesn't seem to be very much consistency of supply with these LED type bulbs. I can't actually find any trace of the first 2 chip bulb I bought, so maybe it has just gone obsolete or what I don't know?
I notice that that they rarely display any brand name and there doesn't seem to be a "market standard" to speak of, just a bewildering variety of sizes and types.

I don't know why they all have such large heatsinks, the 4 chip one that I linked to, has a fan in the heatsink too. I thought that LEDs were a greener alternative to "hot bulbs" and use less current, so I don't know where the heat is coming from? I'm guessing that it's generated in converting the current into something LED friendly?

The other thing you have to watch out for in the listings, is that they often give the outputs for a pair, so you have to half that for a single bulb... It's also rather rare to find them listed singly. They are starting to compare favourably to conventional bulbs pricewise and you do at least get a spare if you buy a pair... Except I seem to give my spares away!

They do often give all the measurements of the bulbs with the listing, which is handy, but we need to find a way of measuring the gap between the bulb holder and shell?? Ideas anyone?

[Luddite]

Nice to see one of your adapters on Geoff's headlight, Mr G.

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

I don't know why they all have such large heatsinks, the 4 chip one that I linked to, has a fan in the heatsink too. I thought that LEDs were a greener alternative to "hot bulbs" and use less current, so I don't know where the heat is coming from? I'm guessing that it's generated in converting the current into something LED friendly?

...

They do often give all the measurements of the bulbs with the listing, which is handy, but we need to find a way of measuring the gap between the bulb holder and shell?? Ideas anyone?

Although LED bulbs have lower resistance and are are more efficient than halogen bulbs, they still produce heat but for different reasons than traditional bulbs. An LED bulb should be cool to the touch as it doesn't produce any infra red radiation and it's the infra red that heats up traditional bulbs.

However, it's make-up means it still produces heat from the operation of the diode itself and the microprocessor that runs it. To draw parallels, I think we've all noticed how hot computers get when their processors are working hard (they have internal fans too, like some of the bulbs). And let's not forget that regulator/rectifiers are basically made up of diodes and, as Ducati owners, we're all too well aware of how much heat they can generate!

As for measuring clearance, how about adapting the old method of measuring squish? Place a ball of plasticine in the appropriate area, gently reassemble and then pull apart again and measure the resulting thickness of the plasticine.

[Mr Gazza]

Hats off to you again Luddite for a full explanation. Thank you.

I thought about plasticine too, but did it this evening with a ruler across the bulb housing, measure from ruler to rim. then ruler across shell and measure from ruler to back of shell. subtract bulb to rim from rim to back of shell and a bit of compensation for the relative positions of the rim to shell to get the exact clearance.

So these figures are from the three pronged H4 flange (that locates the in the reflector) to the back of the shell. (this should be the measurement given for the heatsink in the listings).. ( The 4 chip is 30mm)

Bosch..40mm
Cibie.. 55mm
Autopal.. 50mm

The Autopal is back in now, with the 4 chip LED, ready to try once the valve service is done at the weekend, so watch this space.

[bobbertandsammy]

I’m leaning towards this one for my 750

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323281401585

[dacs]

Finally got around to fitting the LED H4 bulb that Mr Gazza gifted me (as a Solstice present) into the Cibie lamp which is held into the Bosch shell with one of Mr Gazza's adaptors. "Plug and play" in the true meaning of the words, I then nipped up the road (an unlit B road) to check it out. No measurements taken, so this is entirely subjective, but well impressed at my ability to now see where the road goes after dark. Just remains to monitor how hot it gets/long it lasts.

[Darren69]

Do you need to fit the load resistors?

I was looking at these ones as the ones Gazza linked to are out of stock still. They look to be the same to me, but they don't show a picture of the H4 plugs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-200W-H...r=512539836458

[Mr Gazza]

No load resistors or any such gadgets added Darren, it's as Dacs says "plug and play"

The bulbs you have found certainly seem to be the ones Dacs and I are using, The same ones are listed a little cheaper here. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Car-LE...75.c100623.m-1

I was a little surprised to see 6000k colour temperature, but checking the original listing of mine, I see that it is the same. I wonder if this explains the lack of nuisance dazzle from road signs?
I'm still to try the bulb in the Autopal, which is all installed on the bike, but bike still in bits following a valve service and now awaiting it's deep clean and annual service. (even changing the internal fuel lines this year on recommendation from Carl Harrison, who supplied upgraded tube for that purpose.)
.
If I can get that confidence inspiring dip pattern with the Autopal and a slightly better high beam penetration, I will be a very happy bunny. (unlike the one in the beam.. )

My measurements seem to indicate that the subject LED will fit into the standard Bosch shell and reflector.

The listings show a UK supplier, which is reassuring, but the Country of origin is given away as they are listed as water-proof so you can use them in the wain.

[Mr Gazza]

For what it's worth, I put my collection of bulbs on a wattmeter this morning. Results as follows:

Battery start voltage 12.5V. End of testing 12.3V.

Osram Nightbreaker+ 50/55
Hi 47.9W 4.2A 11.6V
Lo 36.5W 3.1A 11.6V

Phillips ExtremeVision. 50/55
Hi 52W 4.5A 11.7V
Lo 38.6W 3.1A 11.7V

My first LED. 180W, 18000LM, 6000K.
Hi/Lo 25W 2.5A 11.1V

4 chip LED 200W, 20000LM, 6000K. with cooling fan and motor.
Hi/Lo 14.5W 1.2A 12.1V

The latest 4 chip LED is coming out top with the best light output, least voltage drop, and least power consumption.
The LED bulbs show no difference in the power readings between dip and main, even though in the case of the 4 chip, all the LEDs are on for main beam.

I have yet to obtain a pilot bulb for the Cibie, but I am on my second one for the Autopal. The first was a very large multi chip thing which flickered when on the move and also wowed when the indicators were working...This was an MOT fail (although it was merely mentioned and not failed) The second one was given me by Utopia, is smaller with only 5 chips and so far is working well.

[Nickj]

Don't forget to check that the light emitting part is at about the same distance from the back of the reflector. The reflectors for conventional bulbs assume that the light comes from a small filament and in optical terms they'll consider it to be almost a point source, so the way it reflects light will change if the source moves. This will also change the way the lens modifies the light into a pattern on the road.

Too far back and you loose some light due to the optics of the reflector. The bright area on the road dims in the centre and the overall lit area increases in size but reduces in overall brightness.
Just right and the reflector works. That's going to be 25-30mm from the back of the reflector.
Too far forwards and again you loose some of the light due to the optics of the reflector. The bright area on the road is smaller along with the outer lit area.

So there might well be some gains to be made by shifting the bulbs position if it is longer than a conventional H4.

[Mr Gazza]

I hear you Nick. The focus is important.
It is surprising how different the beam patterns are, even with renowned brands like the Osram and Phillip's bulbs, in the same reflector. It must be down to subtle differences in the focus, ie, the light source position, as you describe above.

I am assuming that, as with say the DIN specs of nuts and bolts, that there is a similar spec for "H4" bulbs, which would apply, not only to the connection and mounting type, but also the focus of the beam, or filament position.

You used to be able to count on the old British Kite mark, which was probably superseded by an EEC standard.. Soon probably to be irrelevant! I have no idea if the Chinese manufacturers adhere to any such specs or even if they are policed to any degree?
It's largely a case of caveat emptor when buying new generation bulbs on eBay, as I seem to do quite a lot! Luckily so far the results seem to be quite good.

It was probably issues with focus that has lead to the outlawing of HID conversions? I do worry that some LEDs will fall foul to the same criteria as the HIDs. I am not au fait with the regs regarding what light power is allowed, but I do know there are limits for this, hence why some bulbs are sold "not for road use".

I'm enjoying the learning involved in this project and I've certainly made massive improvements to my Monster's lights in the standard shell and rim. At least night riding is no longer a fearful experience, I think I nearly "enjoyed" the last ride..

[Darkness]

Remembering to swap out the black visor helps too!