696 Front Indicator Issue

velosam · 03-11-2020, 03:36 PM

My friend has a 696. It has sequential LED rear indicators like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124380614784 The front ones are the standard filament bulb originals.

There's two problems, one easily (I expect) sorted, the other is a bigger problem and I wondered if anyone's had any experience of this?

1. Getting the flash rate sorted: I have a couple of resistors that can go into the loom to stop them flashing too rapidly.

2. The rear right and front right indicators work fine (apart from the rapid flash). The rear left works ok when the front left indicator is unplugged from the loom. Once you plug the indicator in, the rear left does not work, nor does the front left. I've tried a new indicator (with loom) and new bulb and get the same results.

slob · 03-11-2020, 04:01 PM

when you day tried new indicator+loom, do you mean changing the faulty rear unit?

(tbh at that price i’m surprised they work at all, even though they look quite good)

velosam · 03-11-2020, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

when you day tried new indicator+loom, do you mean changing the faulty rear unit?

(tbh at that price i’m surprised they work at all, even though they look quite good)

No, I tried a new front indicator. You may have a point that it may be the rear. I'm unsure if they're those exact ones, they look similar though. The bike came with them on, with a tail tidy. She may have the original indicators so could be worth looking to swap them back.

slob · 03-11-2020, 04:13 PM

the obvious next thing to try would be to cross wire the rear ones (quicker thsn s physical swap) to confirm the rear indicator itself is faulty, rather than how it interacts with the front one.

the fast flash is a little odd, my experience is that one normal bulb usually adds enough resostamve to sort the flash rate out, but as you say adding resistors is the answer. if space is at a premium, you might be able to combine the earths and add a single resistor.

Darren69 · 03-11-2020, 04:27 PM

Have you tried the left side with both as standard bulb type lamps? If it works then it's probably some issue with the ECU/Dash circuitry being incompatible? As I understand it there's not actual flasher unit on these it's controlled by the dash.

velosam · 03-11-2020, 04:30 PM

I've got another friend who's au fait with bike electrics who's going to look at it, so I'm going to let him sort it out. Just wanted to check it's not something weird or specific to 696's that they don't like LED's or something similar.

It's not my area of interest or speciality! Plugging stuff into wiring looms / simple soldering etc. is as far as my expertise extends. Electrical diagnostics is witchcraft to me!

velosam · 03-11-2020, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

Have you tried the left side with both as standard bulb type lamps? If it works then it's probably some issue with the ECU/Dash circuitry being incompatible? As I understand it there's not actual flasher unit on these it's controlled by the dash.

I'll put that down as something to try. I think going back to bulb rears may be the easy option.

Luddite · 03-11-2020, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velosam

Just wanted to check it's not something weird or specific to 696's that they don't like LED's or something similar.

The 696/796/1100 will happily run normal LED indicators - indeed, Ducati Performance did a set specifically for these models. I have some on my Evo and they came with four resistors, one for each lamp.

I agree with slob - normal LEDs should work without resistors if they are paired with filament bulbs. The thing to note about the 696/796/1100 is that the LED indicators only flash at the correct rate when the engine is running. If you try them with the engine off, they flash at double speed, even with resistors fitted.

So, if you haven't done so already, try them again with the motor running and see if the right side flash at the correct rate.

While normal LED indicators will work fine, I don't know about these sequential ones. As they continuously change the number of LEDs that are illuminated, presumably the power draw is constantly changing too. Perhaps the bike's electronics can't cope with that? I've no actual experience with this type of indicators though, so I'm only speculating.

velosam · 04-11-2020, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddite

While normal LED indicators will work fine, I don't know about these sequential ones. As they continuously change the number of LEDs that are illuminated, presumably the power draw is constantly changing too. Perhaps the bike's electronics can't cope with that? I've no actual experience with this type of indicators though, so I'm only speculating.

That's an interesting thought. I've got a couple of spare indicators, so they can be used to test out this theory.

I have tried it with the motor running, no change. I'd elsewhere (on here I think, before I got mine and joined up) that the indicators don't like functioning properly without the motor turning.

350TSS · 04-11-2020, 09:00 AM

Your last comment points to poor earthing, the earth lead is sitting on a layer of corrosion and when the engine vibrates the lead makes contact with the frame

slob · 04-11-2020, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Your last comment points to poor earthing, the earth lead is sitting on a layer of corrosion and when the engine vibrates the lead makes contact with the frame

or a broken wire.

flasher relay on 620ie is on the circuit board in the clocks.

velosam · 04-11-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

or a broken wire.

flasher relay on 620ie is on the circuit board in the clocks.

This is on a friend’s 696, not on my bike!

slob · 04-11-2020, 09:25 PM

not intimately familiar with 696 electrics but that generation of monsters have more reliable clocks than the first injected models

i misunderstood and thought you meant your indicators only work with engine running

velosam · 04-11-2020, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

not intimately familiar with 696 electrics but that generation of monsters have more reliable clocks than the first injected models

i misunderstood and thought you meant your indicators only work with engine running

Mine are all good. When I swapped mine over, it was a simple process with no issues.

I’m going to leave this problem with the 696 flashers for my friend to sort, but the advice from you all above is really helpful. Cheers.

velosam · 15-12-2020, 04:59 PM

I'm still chasing this one around. Managed to strip out the old rear indicators and bought some filament ones. The wiring at the back of the bike was a proper dog's dinner so I stripped all that back and got to a point where I was back to the original wiring.

Then tested the output on both sides of the bike:

Right indicator: 7-12v varying. Indicator flashes perfectly when running or bike off.
Left indicator: 1.5-3.5v varying. Indicator doesn't flash. When I plug the front indicator in, the current disappears.

I then checked the front indicator for continuity and there's no issue with the front indicator. But once I plug it in, there's clearly insufficient voltage to drive the front bulb, so that acts like a switch and stops any power going to the rear.

So where I've got to now is a mobile mechanic is coming tomorrow night - I've run out of time and desire to find this, it's not my bike - if it was, I'd probably spend longer doing it, but I've got my own projects to get on with, as well as a manic last week of work before the Christmas break, so I'll post up what the result is once he's diagnosed it.

03-11-2020, 03:36 PM	#1
velosam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Stirling Bike: M1000ie Posts: 120	696 Front Indicator Issue My friend has a 696. It has sequential LED rear indicators like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124380614784 The front ones are the standard filament bulb originals. There's two problems, one easily (I expect) sorted, the other is a bigger problem and I wondered if anyone's had any experience of this? 1. Getting the flash rate sorted: I have a couple of resistors that can go into the loom to stop them flashing too rapidly. 2. The rear right and front right indicators work fine (apart from the rapid flash). The rear left works ok when the front left indicator is unplugged from the loom. Once you plug the indicator in, the rear left does not work, nor does the front left. I've tried a new indicator (with loom) and new bulb and get the same results.

03-11-2020, 04:27 PM	#5
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Have you tried the left side with both as standard bulb type lamps? If it works then it's probably some issue with the ECU/Dash circuitry being incompatible? As I understand it there's not actual flasher unit on these it's controlled by the dash. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

04-11-2020, 09:25 PM	#13
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,712	not intimately familiar with 696 electrics but that generation of monsters have more reliable clocks than the first injected models i misunderstood and thought you meant your indicators only work with engine running Last edited by slob; 04-11-2020 at 09:31 PM..

03-11-2020, 04:01 PM	#2
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,712	when you day tried new indicator+loom, do you mean changing the faulty rear unit? (tbh at that price i’m surprised they work at all, even though they look quite good)

03-11-2020, 04:13 PM	#4
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,712	the obvious next thing to try would be to cross wire the rear ones (quicker thsn s physical swap) to confirm the rear indicator itself is faulty, rather than how it interacts with the front one. the fast flash is a little odd, my experience is that one normal bulb usually adds enough resostamve to sort the flash rate out, but as you say adding resistors is the answer. if space is at a premium, you might be able to combine the earths and add a single resistor.

03-11-2020, 04:30 PM	#6
velosam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Stirling Bike: M1000ie Posts: 120	I've got another friend who's au fait with bike electrics who's going to look at it, so I'm going to let him sort it out. Just wanted to check it's not something weird or specific to 696's that they don't like LED's or something similar. It's not my area of interest or speciality! Plugging stuff into wiring looms / simple soldering etc. is as far as my expertise extends. Electrical diagnostics is witchcraft to me!

04-11-2020, 09:00 AM	#10
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,419	Your last comment points to poor earthing, the earth lead is sitting on a layer of corrosion and when the engine vibrates the lead makes contact with the frame

15-12-2020, 04:59 PM	#15
velosam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Stirling Bike: M1000ie Posts: 120	I'm still chasing this one around. Managed to strip out the old rear indicators and bought some filament ones. The wiring at the back of the bike was a proper dog's dinner so I stripped all that back and got to a point where I was back to the original wiring. Then tested the output on both sides of the bike: Right indicator: 7-12v varying. Indicator flashes perfectly when running or bike off. Left indicator: 1.5-3.5v varying. Indicator doesn't flash. When I plug the front indicator in, the current disappears. I then checked the front indicator for continuity and there's no issue with the front indicator. But once I plug it in, there's clearly insufficient voltage to drive the front bulb, so that acts like a switch and stops any power going to the rear. So where I've got to now is a mobile mechanic is coming tomorrow night - I've run out of time and desire to find this, it's not my bike - if it was, I'd probably spend longer doing it, but I've got my own projects to get on with, as well as a manic last week of work before the Christmas break, so I'll post up what the result is once he's diagnosed it.