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11-08-2020, 10:35 AM | #1 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
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In fact, I just checked Flea Bay, and the same seller (james_sherlock) I bought the other two from was listing one removed from a Yamaha for 29 squid, free postage. Just bought that too, so now all my Monsters will get one... (A series R/R draws only the current from the alternator that the bike is consuming. A shunt runs the alternator 100% duty cycle 100% of the time - and shunts any excess it doesn't want back into the stator windings, making them hotter and the wires crispier). Adding in the most expensive Triumph link cable I bought (30 quid) still comes in cheaper than a shunt from an unknown manufacturer. Or you could have superior technology made by the Japanese OEM supplier to almost every motorcycle manufacturer on the planet. Your choice... Last edited by spuggy; 11-08-2020 at 10:45 AM.. |
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11-08-2020, 05:43 PM | #2 |
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Brilliant tutorial,more advice please !
Great tutorial Vince, once again I am doffing my cap at your knowledge. I would like some more advice if you can oblige. So I am.....well a Luddite () when it comes to electrics....sorry about that....so I went to start my new addition earlier(S2r 1000), and battery was low. Plugged in the optimate and we are showing 11.3 v ,89amp. I let it do its thing for an hour then hey presto we are back in the game.
With the engine running we are now showing 14 v( I think this indicates alternator is doing its bit ).......engine off and we are showing 12 v.an hour later 12.1v. So here are the questions, if it's a 12 v battery,with the engine off it will never be more than 12 v will it as that's the capacity of the battery???? If the answer to above is , correct it will max out at 12 v, then why is the optimate charge indicator still showing "low". Please give your answers at "thicko" level |
12-08-2020, 08:15 AM | #3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
Posts: 2,465
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Hi Mike. Sounds like your battery needs replacing to me. Although, nominally, they are 12V, each of the six cells that make the battery are 2.1 - 2.2V so, fully charged, the battery should read 12.6 - 12.8V. Anything less than 12.4V and you'll probably have trouble starting, especially with a Ducati.
To check, disconnect the battery, fully charge it for 8 hours then measure the voltage after an hour (this allows the 'surface charge' to dissipate for an accurate reading). Let the battery stand for another 24 hours and see what the voltage is - if it shows 12.4V or lower you've got a problem. As you say yours is only showing 12.1V just an hour after charging, I think it's Motobatt time! As an example, the battery on my Gilera dropped to 12.3V when it failed to start. After I charged it up it read 12.8V and held that charge for a week while I waited for the new R/R to arrive. Hope that helps. PS I found this table online, which is quite useful. You can see that, although your battery has only dropped maybe half a volt, it's actually holding less than 50% of the charge of a healthy battery. Last edited by Luddite; 12-08-2020 at 08:48 AM.. Reason: Diagram added |
12-08-2020, 12:36 PM | #4 |
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Hi Vince, thanks for the advice,I will follow your instructions to the letter and let you know.The seller said he had replaced their battery recently , I was worried it was slowly draining, faulty earth or similar, will let you know ,cheers.
Mike |
12-08-2020, 01:02 PM | #5 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Bike: M1100evo
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If you charge it off the bike, (or at least disconnect it), and it still drops to 12.1V, then you'll know it's definitely the battery and not a parasitic drain or faulty wiring. If, on the other hand, it holds its charge, let me know and I'll show you how to check for a parasitic drain.
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12-08-2020, 06:38 PM | #6 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Telford
Bike: S4r
Posts: 174
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12-08-2020, 08:41 PM | #7 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Aylsham
Bike: Multiple Monsters
Posts: 193
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Spuggy and Luddite, for two excellent threads that have given me the confidence to dabble in electrics.
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12-08-2020, 11:27 PM | #8 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
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Yeh, actually, Fowler's in Bristol had 10 in stock on Tuesday (9 now, sorry boys ) https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/view/T2500676 They were cheaper than anyone I saw on Flea Bay @ 20.57 GBP (VAT included), and will pop them in a plain brown envelope and mail them out for 3-4 quid; got mine today. That's a pint you owe me Quote:
Do the same for the Ducati connector block on your original rectifier, and then you can swap the Ducati locking connector block onto the Triumph link cable - just adjust the terminal tang so it's slighly proud if it got flat, push the terminal into the block until it clicks/locks. And then you'll have the locking function on the block on the Triumph cable as well. Might want to add a small zip tie; the lock doesn't quite hold the connector 100% of the way in... (to clarify this is mostly to make it more weathertight - the electrical connection is fine) Quote:
Hit the button, big pause while it winds up - fires up every time... And they discharge 1% per month if you don't use the bike, not 10% like lead acid. I'm, like, so over lead acid/AGM technology... Last edited by spuggy; 13-08-2020 at 01:17 AM.. |
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13-08-2020, 04:37 PM | #9 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
Posts: 2,465
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As you say, it's fitted as standard to, for example, the 821 and 1200 Monsters and, knowing Ducati as we do, you wouldn't expect the bean counters to authorise a top spec R/R when a cheaper option is available. I was under the impression it was an unremarkable SCR shunt type (I think the S in SH signifies SCR circuitry and the F in FH indicates (MOS)FET). Having corresponded with Shindengen in the past, I pinged them an email for clarification and, to their credit, they replied straightaway: Last edited by Luddite; 13-08-2020 at 06:56 PM.. Reason: Series type model nos. added |
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14-08-2020, 12:06 AM | #10 | ||||
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
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Well, frolicking puppies and rainbows... I knew the SH775 is a 35A SCR series R/R, and the SH847 a 50A version of the same. The SH821 is a later (& still current) type; to my mind, it beggars belief that Ducati are still fitting SCR shunts to new bikes... Ho-hum. Found a cheap source for SH775's (heh - Polaris have jacked the price of their part to $200 since the Strom guys discovered them at 60). Least the 775 will be a straight swap ... Quote:
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14-08-2020, 10:02 AM | #11 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
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Negotiating your way through all the Shindengen R/Rs is a real minefield, Spuggy, especially as Shindengen themselves don't appear to publish a list of all their models and types, (at least I've never managed to find one).
It also doesn't help that, despite producing products with fundamentally different circuitry, Shindengen uses the same labelling system to identify them all - SH775, SH821, SH847 - you can't tell from the model no. which is shunt and which, if any, is series. It would be much simpler if the series type had its own dedicated suffix (they do identify the MOSFET type with an 'F' after all). But that would make life too easy, wouldn't it?! |
14-08-2020, 02:32 PM | #12 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Farnborough
Bike: M900sie
Posts: 171
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And although that list is quite useful, the very first entry (for an SH775) is incorrect, as that unit isn't a MOSFET Series R/R.... Quote:
As you appear to have a corporate A/C with those guys (required to open an account/ask web-form questions - understandable given they're 100% OEM/zero retail), would you be in a position to ask for specific datasheets? Or technical questions? Reason for asking is that the SH775 is an 35A SCR-based series R/R. It used to be dirt-cheap ($60), but now is much more expensive (like $192 as a Polaris OEM part), and is known to have at least one problem;intended for an ATV, it doesn't regulate over some high RPM - variously reported to be 9,000 RPM (strongly disputed by guys who've measured theirs at this), or 10,000 RPM. In the absence of any real evidence, looks like you could choose what you want to believe: https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/re...-esr279.47773/ https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/a....748962/page-2 And even Jake is only repeating what some customers have told him, apparently https://v4musclebike.com/forums/show...ndengen&page=3 (BTW, page two of that thread has a video of a chap statically rev'ing his bike to 10,000 RPM, and the voltage output from the SH775 remains constant - another guy in the same thread says he had the SH775 fitted and working perfectly for 2 years before he even heard there was supposed to be an issue over 10,000 RPM)... But it'd be really, really nice to have a definitive statement from ShinDengen... Apparently, some of those Triumph 4's are red-lined at 14,000, 16,000 RPM (wow, ...). I can see how any limit would matter to them. Jake used to supply the SH775. He now doesn't, and recommends the SH847 instead - because gets them for almost the same money. He has expressed concerns regarding the SH775 and the RPM limit; he isn't convinced that the shutdown it performs when this limit is exceeded (which he states as 9-10K, so quotes 9K to be conservative) is non-harmful to the unit itself. From his POV, the SH775 is potentially problematic for some and very close to the same price as the SH847 - which has more capacity and works with everything... I can see exactly where he's coming from. but
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14-08-2020, 04:58 PM | #13 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Beachtown
Bike: M900
Posts: 2,188
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Here’s their response when I asked this: “Can you please tell me the difference between the FH012AA and the FH020AA which replaced it?“ Fm.Shindengen Thank you very much for inquiry through our company website. We are very pleased to answer to your demand. Our car electric components are customized product for the Motorcycle Manufacturer. We deeply apologize but due to a trade agreement with the Motorcycle Manufacturer, we are prohibited to sales and disclose any information of our products to customer directly. We apologize for this inconvenience but please contact with the official sales store of the Motorcycle Manufacturer.
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14-08-2020, 10:09 PM | #14 | |
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