Insurance Companies

[350TSS]

Just a cautionary tale - hope it is not too boring.
I had to insure my daughter's 18th birthday present (‘55 plate Honda Jazz). Spent ages looking on comparison websites and the only quote for one year less than the value of the car was from Smart wheels at £1100. This involved the fitting of a black box which monitors usage, time of day, mileage, speed, g forces against a satnav location so it knows where the car is exceeding the speed limit. A bit of a bugger when I want to drive it but probably a good thing for a recently passed test young driver.
I filled out the questionnaire online and it asked “How many years NCD do you have?” and I replied 9 years (truthfully).
Paid the money and insurance started and black box was fitted within a week as required by the policy.
The next day they asked for proof of NCD and I duly sent/uploaded a scan of my renewal notice for the family car we own.
They replied with words to the effect that the proof must not be more than 2 years old (which it wasn’t) and cannot be attached to another car insured elsewhere (which it was). Failure to comply with their requirements would lead to cancellation of the policy within 7 days or the NCD for the Honda Jazz being re-set to zero and a re-quotation being made. There was only one way that was going to go.
I sent this e mail for the sport of it.
“Re the above and attachment: Without prejudice
This is how I view the position.
Your website provides a proposal form in which I entered my relevant details and the type of insurance i wished to purchase.
One of the questions is "how many years NCD do you have?"
I replied truthfully with "9 years NCD".
On the basis of my responses to your proposal document you responded with a quotation of £x pa,
I accepted the quotation and authorised payment which you accepted. A contract was formed and you are on risk for the insurance of the vehicle from the agreed time for commencement of the insurance. I knew and accepted that you would require proof of NCD which you duly required and I provided.
When you see my proof of NCD you attach two additional conditions to the proof of NCD namely that:
a) it must not be more than 2 years old; and
b) it must not be in use on any other car.
The imposition of these two additional conditions is effectively a counter offer, but it is a counter offer generated after the establishment of the contract between us. Neither of these conditions were mentioned or highlighted in your proposal form.
I am not able to comply with these two additional conditions.
You now also state the that you will cancel the policy if these two conditions are not met or alternatively you will re-quote the premium on the basis of no NCD (undoubtedly at a higher level than the agreed contract price). Presumably, if you decide to cancel the policy you will also seek to retain a significant portion of the money I agreed to and paid to establish the contract in the first place.
I do not believe you are entitled in contract law to unilaterally impose extra conditions on an existing contract where failure to comply will inevitably result in a change to a fundamental term of the contract, namely the price.
You have effectively repudiated the agreed contract.
If a court found that this was indeed the case then you will almost certainly be required to refund my money in full. Since the repudiation was generated from your side I may also have a claim for damages.
Alternatively, you could waive these extra conditions and continue with the agreed contract established between us on the original terms when you accepted my premium.
I want the contract to continue on the original terms and look forward to receiving your confirmation that this is what is going to happen.
If you decide that you are in fact repudiating the contract then I reserve the right to forward this letter and all relevant correspondence to the Insurance Ombudsman.
Regards “

[350TSS]

They replied
“Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your policy.

Unfortunately as part of our underwriting criteria NCD cannot be used on 2 vehicles at the same time, however upon investigation reducing the NCD on the policy to zero does not add any additional premium. ………………………………….”

I accepted as follows:

“I believe your response indicates that you are continuing on the basis of the contract at the time the premium was accepted and thus you are waiving the requirements for proof of NCD being less than 2 years old and not attached to an existing vehicle/ policy.
If that is the case then thank you that is what I want.
Regards

PS your underwriting criteria are illogical
the proposal questionnaire identifies the risk for you inherent in the vehicle itself, type, model, performance value etc., etc. It also identifies the risk inherent in me, the proposer, - e.g. claim record, accident record, NCD history, since the NCD is personal attribute of the policy holder it is irrelevant whether or not there is another policy which has earned the NCD. I can only drive one car at a time.
Unless this is a device to profit maximise.”



Moral is do not take any **** from insurance companies

[Nickj]

Most companies seem to have this tucked away somewhere, one NCD applied at anyone time against one specific policy, I guess that these didn't or weren't upfront about it.
It is though a bit of a strange one given that the risk they insure against is in the car being driven and as you say you can only drive one at anyone time.
In the same light I have a multibike policy and NCD is applied against the policy and the bikes so it clearly is used but in this case against one policy, incidentally that worked out slightly better priced than an average quotes for a single policy bike against the 'worst' of the two (748R) which doesn't seem to make much sense really.

The black box idea I an unconvinced about, there is more than enough personal tracking going on without adding to it, I wouldn't want more trails of my habits going who knows where and being used for who knows what.

[Blah blah]

Yup, had the same, hundreds of years NCD with the daily (may be a slight exaggeration) and when I went to insure a 30 year old pick up, nope can't be used, start from zero...

So my 75hp 30 year old pick up, with limited mileage and a value of about £2500 costs me more to insure than my 190hp year old hot(ish) hatch, on 10000 miles (including business use) that's 6-7 times the value...

[rollo22]

A cautionary note on black boxes.
Get the down loads from the insurance company to check it is working properly they have been known to give erroneous readings resulting in the loads of grief from insurance company for all sorts of driving misdemeanours.

[Saint aka ML]

Hack the black box and make it think you are not driving when you go for a blast. Then turn it to normal for shopping trip.... They are all mostly Android devices. Some insurance companies (aviva) allow you to use their app on phone. It checks for Android root at start like my barclays app or sky app yet it is so easy to cheat that as well lol. I got aviva app to think I was travelling everywhere at - 10mph