Just joined.tell me what I need to know before buying

29-12-2013, 08:18 PM

Hi ,I'm new to this.
I quite fancy a change to a monster,I have had Moto Guzzi's for the past decade or so,with a brief affair with an M2 Buell,which I loved to ride, but was so badly designed that it was becoming a liability( you really shouldn't' hang a tuned Sportster engine by its head steady).
So, I assume the performance is similar to my Guzzi Cali at 73bhp, for the 900,what about the liquid cooled bikes ?No doubt they are more agile and lighter than the guzzi.Certainly much better looking.
Any reliability problems or models to avoid ? I remember some criticism of the rear suspension on rough roads, I live in north east Scotland ,and the roads aren't great.
Any one with a monster near AB556ST,who could let me have a look at it ?
How are they to work on ? they look like the belt is easy enough to change,but are there other frequent jobs that are difficult ?
Hope you chaps can share your expertise,I find that there is a load of nonsense bandied about regarding Italian bikes,I for one find the ones I have owned both well engineered,and reliable ,I can not say the same for a good few of the Japanese/ American bikes I have had the misfortune to own over the years .
Cheers
Lee

Nickj · 30-12-2013, 01:36 AM

Reliability is good, mines done 70K in all weathers.. OK that's in the south but there's still snow down here and we have had some deep floods (wettest I've ever got not swimming!) personal experience says with high level pipes the motor runs happily underwater

Servicing on the 2 valves is mostly regular oil changes at 3-4K and belts every year. The belts are peasy, once you've got the hang of it it's wrapped up in under 30 minutes.
Valve clearances are a PIA but you don't need to do that often. Usually once set they stay set for 20+K.
The water cooled S4's are a real hoot, well they would be with that motor!!

Go for it, just remember to get a good service history or one that has been looked after (oil and belts especially). If it's a newer injection model make sure you get all the keys!!!

BeePee · 30-12-2013, 01:44 AM

Hi Lee, I'm selling my Monster 1100s, if I say so myself it's a cracker, depends what your budget is though. Why do you say the roads up there aren't good ? is it cause they're brilliant ?
Huntly to Braemar, Braemar over the Cairn O'Mount on amonster, these southern softies would love that !

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=48677

BeePee · 30-12-2013, 02:00 AM

Bloody ebay has deleted all my pictures again, I deleted the listing, here's the new one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251413911126

alan s4 · 30-12-2013, 10:47 AM

I had a Guzzi 1100 sport corsa with all the trick bits and now have a S4 Monster (916 engine). No comparison to the Guzzi in terms of ride quality, ease of use, power, handling etc etc. The fuel injection is far more advanced than on the guzzi and losing the shaft drive makes progress much smoother.

If you want a step up in terms of performance I would go for an S4 variant (S4, S4R or RS). Air cooled monsters will feel similar performance wise to the Guzzi (apart from the latest 1000 models).

Mr Gazza · 30-12-2013, 11:32 AM

Welcome Drumnagorrach.

I might be able to draw some vague comparisons to the Guzzi.

My ex brother-in-law used to own a lovely LeMans and we used to swap rides when I owned a 31/2Sport Morini and also a 750SS Ducati. All three "Italians" were perfectly reliable and simple to maintain.

They were all pretty much in the same league really, suprisingly, even the 350 was not handicapped by any lack of cubes. The first thing that BiL noticed with the SS was that it seemed to be doing about 1000RPM more than the Guzzi at any given speed.
My observation was that the Guzzi felt heavier off the stand than the SS, but on the roll it was just as nippy...I liked the feel of all those power pulses through the frame..

.

Comparing my memories of the Guzzi with my Monsters. I think the Monster is definately a lighter and easier to handle bike, both in the yard and on the road. It's also by far the most comfortable bike I have ever had, and far ahead of a LeMans (Obviously).

If you go for a 2 valve 900 then I think the power is similar except that the Duke will be a bit more buzzy than the Guzzi but probably smoother. The chain might be responsible for smoothing out the power pulses I suppose.?

The engineering in the Ducati makes the Guzzi look agricultural by comparison, and mainenance is essensial but simple. Tha valve clearances are proper fiddly, twice as much so on a 4 valver, but you don't have to do that too often, and you can always pay someone to do it anyway.

Same as any bike, making sure that all the connections in the charging circuit are good, should prevent any grief with smoking regs and batteries.

Monsters tend to defy a test pilots analysis of the handing and ride quality because it just does what it should do without any fuss. The thing you might notice is a slight cramp in the cheeks from the permanent grin...

My personal favorites are the 2 valve 900s, carb or injection, it matters not. You will discover a hard core fan base for the 750s on here though, and there is a sound argument for them being better than the 900s.
I think that whatever model you end up with, you will fall in love with it very quickly....Monsters are special...Good luck with the chase..

Nickj · 30-12-2013, 11:38 AM

S4 2000-2005 ... 916 motor slightly retuned for a bit more mid-range power (like it neded it!!) in an ST4 chassis. Call this the base model

S4R 2003 on ... Cosmetic update to single side swining arm, exhausts stacked on one side. Motor changes to the 996

S4RS 2006 on ... More upgrades to suspension, now adjustable ohlins, motor changes to Testastretta unit so it was still a step above the 1000DS model.

There are some S4S challenge models floating about which were used for the single class race series. You'll know these as the steering is lots faster than standard, usually the side panel had a hole to adjust the rear shock through and everything is/was lockwired.

Expect about about 100bhp at the rear wheel from all of these depending on mods, in the light naked monster package that = fun but the fuel consumption can be a bit high

Darren69 · 30-12-2013, 12:35 PM

There's actually a very nice low mileage S4 on ebay, cheaper than the others on there and looks much nicer, very clean and pretty much bone stock. I think it must be a late registered 01 model as the speedo is not electronic and I think they were from '02 on.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-S4-...ht_1291wt_1170

I have no association with the bike or the dealer, just my opinion.

utopia · 30-12-2013, 02:02 PM

Be careful.....once you buy a monster you may never buy another bike ever again !!
That's been my experience with my 750 anyway (7yrs and counting).

The old style monsters, especially the 2-valvers, are particularly nice to work on, with everything being easily accessible. I have no personal experience of the newer style monsters, but I believe they are a bit more fiddly.

Carby models suffer badly from carb icing in the winter (possibly of interest in your northern climate), but a dose of pro.fst in the fuel sorts things out. Injected models avoid this, but the downside is the potential high cost of replacement electronic components if anything goes wrong.

Many used bikes will have had a tail chop, which looks nice and clean but isn't recommended if you ride much on wet roads.

Charging circuits seem to be an Achilles heel, with many reports of reg/rec failure. The general view being that the alternator wiring and connectors are borderline in design. Telltale acid staining is common on the left hand frame rails.

On my bike at least, the front suspension is a little hard on rough roads, but its fine on normal surfaces and kinda suits the character of the bike.

Plastic tanks fitted to some models can swell and distort if using high ethanol content fuel. Steel tanks often suffer leaks around the rear hinge bracket, possibly due to lifting them carelessly when they have a lot of fuel in them.

30-12-2013, 06:52 PM

Way out of my price range Bee Pee,what an exotic looking beast. Yes the roads you mention are excellent,I used to work up at Tomnavoulin,so my daily commute on the Buell was Home ,Keith ,Dufftown and down Glen Rinnes,but amateurish road repairs by moray cooncil have left much of the surface "lumpy"

31-12-2013, 09:31 AM

Slightly off topic, but I was up your way a few years ago when I went to the Thunder in the Glens rally. We rode to Grantown on Spey.
It's a nice part of the world.
I have a good friend (A custom bike painter) who lives in Blairgowrie and get to visit him now and then.
Good luck with your search. I've been keeping an eye out on ebay for something decent - just out of interest.

Darren69 · 31-12-2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickj

S4 2000-2005 ... 916 motor slightly retuned for a bit more mid-range power (like it neded it!!) in an ST4 chassis. Call this the base model

S4R 2003 on ... Cosmetic update to single side swining arm, exhausts stacked on one side. Motor changes to the 996

S4RS 2006 on ... More upgrades to suspension, now adjustable ohlins, motor changes to Testastretta unit so it was still a step above the 1000DS model.

There are some S4S challenge models floating about which were used for the single class race series. You'll know these as the steering is lots faster than standard, usually the side panel had a hole to adjust the rear shock through and everything is/was lockwired.

Expect about about 100bhp at the rear wheel from all of these depending on mods, in the light naked monster package that = fun but the fuel consumption can be a bit high

There are also I believe some late S4R that also had the Testastretta motor like the S4RS.

Don't forget the S4 Fogarty which is an S4 with most of the DP performance extras on !

31-12-2013, 11:27 AM

What's your budget will help with people trying to find you a nice one

31-12-2013, 12:35 PM

Good point.
£2000--2500,but maybe more if I found a nice one near home,and didn't have to factor in getting it home.
A bit of a pain living "north of the wall" All my bikes have come from the deep south,but usually in summer and I ride home.
Another question. I notice the carbs are mounted high,does that mean that a fuel pump is needed ?

31-12-2013, 01:44 PM

The 900 carb models uses a vacuum pump (frame mounted right side between cylinders) as standard
- takes vacuum feed from front inlet tract (and can cause erratic running when hoses are past their best)

29-12-2013, 08:18 PM	#1
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Just joined.tell me what I need to know before buying Hi ,I'm new to this. I quite fancy a change to a monster,I have had Moto Guzzi's for the past decade or so,with a brief affair with an M2 Buell,which I loved to ride, but was so badly designed that it was becoming a liability( you really shouldn't' hang a tuned Sportster engine by its head steady). So, I assume the performance is similar to my Guzzi Cali at 73bhp, for the 900,what about the liquid cooled bikes ?No doubt they are more agile and lighter than the guzzi.Certainly much better looking. Any reliability problems or models to avoid ? I remember some criticism of the rear suspension on rough roads, I live in north east Scotland ,and the roads aren't great. Any one with a monster near AB556ST,who could let me have a look at it ? How are they to work on ? they look like the belt is easy enough to change,but are there other frequent jobs that are difficult ? Hope you chaps can share your expertise,I find that there is a load of nonsense bandied about regarding Italian bikes,I for one find the ones I have owned both well engineered,and reliable ,I can not say the same for a good few of the Japanese/ American bikes I have had the misfortune to own over the years . Cheers Lee

30-12-2013, 01:36 AM	#2
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,208	Reliability is good, mines done 70K in all weathers.. OK that's in the south but there's still snow down here and we have had some deep floods (wettest I've ever got not swimming!) personal experience says with high level pipes the motor runs happily underwater Servicing on the 2 valves is mostly regular oil changes at 3-4K and belts every year. The belts are peasy, once you've got the hang of it it's wrapped up in under 30 minutes. Valve clearances are a PIA but you don't need to do that often. Usually once set they stay set for 20+K. The water cooled S4's are a real hoot, well they would be with that motor!! Go for it, just remember to get a good service history or one that has been looked after (oil and belts especially). If it's a newer injection model make sure you get all the keys!!! __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

30-12-2013, 01:44 AM	#3
BeePee Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Location: GALSTON Bike: S2r Posts: 215	Hi Lee, I'm selling my Monster 1100s, if I say so myself it's a cracker, depends what your budget is though. Why do you say the roads up there aren't good ? is it cause they're brilliant ? Huntly to Braemar, Braemar over the Cairn O'Mount on amonster, these southern softies would love that ! http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ad.php?t=48677 __________________

30-12-2013, 02:00 AM	#4
BeePee Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Location: GALSTON Bike: S2r Posts: 215	Bloody ebay has deleted all my pictures again, I deleted the listing, here's the new one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251413911126 __________________ Last edited by BeePee; 30-12-2013 at 11:47 AM..

30-12-2013, 11:32 AM	#6
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,980	Welcome Drumnagorrach. I might be able to draw some vague comparisons to the Guzzi. My ex brother-in-law used to own a lovely LeMans and we used to swap rides when I owned a 31/2Sport Morini and also a 750SS Ducati. All three "Italians" were perfectly reliable and simple to maintain. They were all pretty much in the same league really, suprisingly, even the 350 was not handicapped by any lack of cubes. The first thing that BiL noticed with the SS was that it seemed to be doing about 1000RPM more than the Guzzi at any given speed. My observation was that the Guzzi felt heavier off the stand than the SS, but on the roll it was just as nippy...I liked the feel of all those power pulses through the frame... Comparing my memories of the Guzzi with my Monsters. I think the Monster is definately a lighter and easier to handle bike, both in the yard and on the road. It's also by far the most comfortable bike I have ever had, and far ahead of a LeMans (Obviously). If you go for a 2 valve 900 then I think the power is similar except that the Duke will be a bit more buzzy than the Guzzi but probably smoother. The chain might be responsible for smoothing out the power pulses I suppose.? The engineering in the Ducati makes the Guzzi look agricultural by comparison, and mainenance is essensial but simple. Tha valve clearances are proper fiddly, twice as much so on a 4 valver, but you don't have to do that too often, and you can always pay someone to do it anyway. Same as any bike, making sure that all the connections in the charging circuit are good, should prevent any grief with smoking regs and batteries. Monsters tend to defy a test pilots analysis of the handing and ride quality because it just does what it should do without any fuss. The thing you might notice is a slight cramp in the cheeks from the permanent grin... My personal favorites are the 2 valve 900s, carb or injection, it matters not. You will discover a hard core fan base for the 750s on here though, and there is a sound argument for them being better than the 900s. I think that whatever model you end up with, you will fall in love with it very quickly....Monsters are special...Good luck with the chase..

30-12-2013, 10:47 AM	#5
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	I had a Guzzi 1100 sport corsa with all the trick bits and now have a S4 Monster (916 engine). No comparison to the Guzzi in terms of ride quality, ease of use, power, handling etc etc. The fuel injection is far more advanced than on the guzzi and losing the shaft drive makes progress much smoother. If you want a step up in terms of performance I would go for an S4 variant (S4, S4R or RS). Air cooled monsters will feel similar performance wise to the Guzzi (apart from the latest 1000 models).

30-12-2013, 11:38 AM	#7
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,208	S4 2000-2005 ... 916 motor slightly retuned for a bit more mid-range power (like it neded it!!) in an ST4 chassis. Call this the base model S4R 2003 on ... Cosmetic update to single side swining arm, exhausts stacked on one side. Motor changes to the 996 S4RS 2006 on ... More upgrades to suspension, now adjustable ohlins, motor changes to Testastretta unit so it was still a step above the 1000DS model. There are some S4S challenge models floating about which were used for the single class race series. You'll know these as the steering is lots faster than standard, usually the side panel had a hole to adjust the rear shock through and everything is/was lockwired. Expect about about 100bhp at the rear wheel from all of these depending on mods, in the light naked monster package that = fun but the fuel consumption can be a bit high __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

30-12-2013, 12:35 PM	#8
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	There's actually a very nice low mileage S4 on ebay, cheaper than the others on there and looks much nicer, very clean and pretty much bone stock. I think it must be a late registered 01 model as the speedo is not electronic and I think they were from '02 on. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-S4-...ht_1291wt_1170 I have no association with the bike or the dealer, just my opinion. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

30-12-2013, 02:02 PM	#9
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,561	Be careful.....once you buy a monster you may never buy another bike ever again !! That's been my experience with my 750 anyway (7yrs and counting). The old style monsters, especially the 2-valvers, are particularly nice to work on, with everything being easily accessible. I have no personal experience of the newer style monsters, but I believe they are a bit more fiddly. Carby models suffer badly from carb icing in the winter (possibly of interest in your northern climate), but a dose of pro.fst in the fuel sorts things out. Injected models avoid this, but the downside is the potential high cost of replacement electronic components if anything goes wrong. Many used bikes will have had a tail chop, which looks nice and clean but isn't recommended if you ride much on wet roads. Charging circuits seem to be an Achilles heel, with many reports of reg/rec failure. The general view being that the alternator wiring and connectors are borderline in design. Telltale acid staining is common on the left hand frame rails. On my bike at least, the front suspension is a little hard on rough roads, but its fine on normal surfaces and kinda suits the character of the bike. Plastic tanks fitted to some models can swell and distort if using high ethanol content fuel. Steel tanks often suffer leaks around the rear hinge bracket, possibly due to lifting them carelessly when they have a lot of fuel in them.

30-12-2013, 06:52 PM	#10
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Way out of my price range Bee Pee,what an exotic looking beast. Yes the roads you mention are excellent,I used to work up at Tomnavoulin,so my daily commute on the Buell was Home ,Keith ,Dufftown and down Glen Rinnes,but amateurish road repairs by moray cooncil have left much of the surface "lumpy"

31-12-2013, 09:31 AM	#11
jarv Guest Posts: n/a	Slightly off topic, but I was up your way a few years ago when I went to the Thunder in the Glens rally. We rode to Grantown on Spey. It's a nice part of the world. I have a good friend (A custom bike painter) who lives in Blairgowrie and get to visit him now and then. Good luck with your search. I've been keeping an eye out on ebay for something decent - just out of interest.

31-12-2013, 11:27 AM	#13
m40uke Guest Posts: n/a	What's your budget will help with people trying to find you a nice one

31-12-2013, 12:35 PM	#14
Drumnagorrach Guest Posts: n/a	Good point. £2000--2500,but maybe more if I found a nice one near home,and didn't have to factor in getting it home. A bit of a pain living "north of the wall" All my bikes have come from the deep south,but usually in summer and I ride home. Another question. I notice the carbs are mounted high,does that mean that a fuel pump is needed ?

31-12-2013, 01:44 PM	#15
DrD Guest Posts: n/a	The 900 carb models uses a vacuum pump (frame mounted right side between cylinders) as standard - takes vacuum feed from front inlet tract (and can cause erratic running when hoses are past their best)