Back on the road. What needs done?

Big Daft Lad · 23-11-2016, 05:37 PM

Right, for various dull reasons my little M600 has been in my shed since 2009. I've been bad, I know but I want it back on the road for next year.

First thing I needed new tyres and the wheels powder coated so I can get it rolling and out the shed to work on it.

I'm going to change the oil & filter, new plugs and new belts. Is it worth trying to start it without a carb rebuild? I must admit carbs scare me!

Any advice about recommissioning a bike after a long lay up would be appreciated.

24-11-2016, 03:40 PM

For me over that amount of time I'd go through the entire bike before even thinking or riding it, change Oil, Fuel, Air and oil filters, all fluids, clutch and brakes, belts, plugs, tyres, forks, if your powder coating the wheels then replace wheel bearings, cush drives (Good Luck) then sorry for stating the obvious, battery and lights.

That's your starting point, I would have a look in the top of the carbs if clean (ish)? I'd try it, but before you try to start her up, I'd crank the bike over and make sure the oil light goes out before she starts, with no plugs in, then go for it fire it up, but. oh and when you have the plugs out squirt some oil into the cylinders. Once you have run her for a bit and warmed her up, change the oil and filter again.

Hope it helps

utopia · 24-11-2016, 06:43 PM

I speak from what I've heard rather than from personal experience but I would be looking out for a misbehaving fuel pump (assuming that you have the vacuum/diaphragm type).
I've heard that the diaphragms don't like to be left dry .. which it may well have been.
If memory serves though, a rebuild kit for the pump can be had from Allen's Performance.

If you also have a vacuum fuel tap, then the same might apply there.
Earlier models had a manual tap though.

I would start it with the carbs left pretty much untouched, and see how it goes.
Old fuel may have gummied up the works a bit, but equally you may have no problem.
I would wait for a carb problem to surface rather than looking for one first .. you may well get lucky.
Just drain any old fuel from tank and float bowls, and refill with new.

Be aware that it takes a bit of cranking on the starter motor to refill the float bowls with fuel before it will start, so don't expect instant firing.
Unless you prime the bowls yourself (I know Dookbob does this, with a syringe).

Big Daft Lad · 24-11-2016, 07:31 PM

Hmm, I've no idea what kind of fuel pump is on it. It's a 96 600. But thanks for all the ideas, I'll work my way through the lot. I feel bad about leaving it for so long but at least it's been in a dry well aired shed.

I took the wheels to the powder Coater's today. Last night was fun trying to get the cush drive bushes out. What a bang they went off with when they came out. I've got new ones and new bearings to fit when the wheels are back.

There's a bit of corrosion on the swing arm where stones have chipped the paint do I'm going to clean that up an paint it when the wheel's out.

Your thinking is good regarding the carbs, I'll see if there is a problem before creating one by stripping them.

Roll on April...can't wait! I've missed riding the wee fella.

Nickj · 25-11-2016, 07:36 PM

Any seals ..
Probably worth changing the oil, hydraulics

I'd be tempted to not turn it over on the starter till I'd checked that everything went round by hand..

26-11-2016, 09:52 AM

I'd suggest to start by getting it going enough to see if the carbs are any good, left for that amount of time it would be my biggest concern.

Big Daft Lad · 01-12-2016, 03:50 PM

Went to pick up the wheels today. The Muppets have coated the cush drive sockets. Sigh. I wouldn't mind but I went through the whole thing what needed done and what I wanted masked in detail.

01-12-2016, 06:59 PM

Original nitromors will remove powder coated bits if you have some and are careful

Darren69 · 01-12-2016, 07:23 PM

You need to buy some DCM (Dichoromethane) which was what I believe was in the original Nitromors that made it so good. The new water based stuff is useless. If you do buy some please be very careful its very nasty stuff. Read the safety data sheet and follow the precautions. Use suitable gloves, eye protection and a vapour mask. Avoid breathing the fumes and don't get any on your skin! Oh and its extremely flammable too so don't smoke!

Mr Gazza · 01-12-2016, 07:52 PM

I think I would be tempted to try a reamer.

If the bores were un-masked for coating they would almost certainly have been for blasting. So the bores will be still be rough after chemical stripping.

A reamer might be quicker and cleaner too, but do be careful not to over-bore them. A helpful member on here might be able to provide the nominal size.

Flip · 01-12-2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daft Lad

Went to pick up the wheels today. The Muppets have coated the cush drive sockets. Sigh. I wouldn't mind but I went through the whole thing what needed done and what I wanted masked in detail.

Sorry to hear that- have to admit I learnt a long time ago to do the masking (either with duct tape or sacrificial screws/bolts where necessary) for the blasting and the powder coaters when I've had frames done.

Not a fan of powder coat on wheels (or race bike frames) though- chemical etch primer, paint and lacquer every time for me.

utopia · 01-12-2016, 08:20 PM

Gazza makes a fair point but I dunno whether shotblasting will have affected the actual sizing very much.
It will certainly have affected the surface finish but these are not bearing housings, they merely need to be accurate in position and size to accept rubber bushes and retain them firmly.
....and by all accounts, they are a VERY firm fit when new.

Of course one approach would be to consider that the powdercoaters made the mistake and so its their responsibility to put it right.
Downside to that is they may not be as careful as you would be.
But it might be worth asking ... they might have some suggestions.

If the bearings are out then you could try softening the powdercoat with a heatgun or blowtorch maybe.
I'm just thinking aloud here though .. I dunno whether it softens with heat or not.

Capo reckoned that acetone softened the powdercoat on his engine cases enough to be able to scratch it away, but I think he was only dealing with a very small area.

Mr Gazza · 01-12-2016, 09:24 PM

Heat will soften powder coat and it is indeed the process by which it is applied.
If memory serves I think it is in the oven at 600 degrees for about 30 minutes. (my mate owns a powder coating shop.)
You would need a lot of heat to soften the cush bores and it would not stay local for long in Aluminium... I would anticipate damage to the remainder of the coating.. And it would still need mechanical removal. (from a very hot wheel!)

I had some disappointing coating on my brake and gear pedals, which I decided to remove by warming.
By the time it's warm enough to soften, it's very hot to handle, and any scraping or whatever if fairly ineffective and likely to scrape the ally anyway.... I finished up just burning it off, with poisonous liquid dripping down and toxic black smoke going up... Nice!

Not.

An Acetone poultice might work, but it is awfully hard stuff to control, being so very runny.
I reckon you would be lucky to get enough in the right place for long enough without getting any, where it was not needed, causing marks.

Hence why I suggested the reamer.

... and yes, better still at the coater's expense.

Big Daft Lad · 01-12-2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

Of course one approach would be to consider that the powdercoaters made the mistake and so its their responsibility to put it right.
Downside to that is they may not be as careful as you would be

This is the route I took, they are doing it again with the condition that the cush drive bushes and bearings don't fall out due to over blasting. I specifically pointed out I didn't want these areas blasted or coated.

We'll see what they come up with. Worst case is they buy me a new wheel off eBay.

utopia · 02-12-2016, 12:28 PM

Did they blast and coat the bearing housings too ?
I would be slightly more concerned about that.
But then again, I don't know whether it would actually cause a problem .. it may sound worse than it actually is.
I guess it might even be the case that a light shotblasting would tighten up the fit of the bearings rather than loosen them, due to the burring of the surfaces (rather like multiple centrepunch dots).
I guess only time will tell.
Either way, there can be no excuse whatsoever for coating the bearing surfaces so I think you have a good case for recompense.
Good luck.

23-11-2016, 05:37 PM	#1
Big Daft Lad Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gordon Bike: M600 Posts: 95	Back on the road. What needs done? Right, for various dull reasons my little M600 has been in my shed since 2009. I've been bad, I know but I want it back on the road for next year. First thing I needed new tyres and the wheels powder coated so I can get it rolling and out the shed to work on it. I'm going to change the oil & filter, new plugs and new belts. Is it worth trying to start it without a carb rebuild? I must admit carbs scare me! Any advice about recommissioning a bike after a long lay up would be appreciated.

25-11-2016, 07:36 PM	#5
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,193	Any seals .. Probably worth changing the oil, hydraulics I'd be tempted to not turn it over on the starter till I'd checked that everything went round by hand.. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

01-12-2016, 07:23 PM	#9
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,023	You need to buy some DCM (Dichoromethane) which was what I believe was in the original Nitromors that made it so good. The new water based stuff is useless. If you do buy some please be very careful its very nasty stuff. Read the safety data sheet and follow the precautions. Use suitable gloves, eye protection and a vapour mask. Avoid breathing the fumes and don't get any on your skin! Oh and its extremely flammable too so don't smoke! __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

01-12-2016, 07:52 PM	#10
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,816	I think I would be tempted to try a reamer. If the bores were un-masked for coating they would almost certainly have been for blasting. So the bores will be still be rough after chemical stripping. A reamer might be quicker and cleaner too, but do be careful not to over-bore them. A helpful member on here might be able to provide the nominal size. __________________

01-12-2016, 09:24 PM	#13
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,816	Heat will soften powder coat and it is indeed the process by which it is applied. If memory serves I think it is in the oven at 600 degrees for about 30 minutes. (my mate owns a powder coating shop.) You would need a lot of heat to soften the cush bores and it would not stay local for long in Aluminium... I would anticipate damage to the remainder of the coating.. And it would still need mechanical removal. (from a very hot wheel!) I had some disappointing coating on my brake and gear pedals, which I decided to remove by warming. By the time it's warm enough to soften, it's very hot to handle, and any scraping or whatever if fairly ineffective and likely to scrape the ally anyway.... I finished up just burning it off, with poisonous liquid dripping down and toxic black smoke going up... Nice! Not. An Acetone poultice might work, but it is awfully hard stuff to control, being so very runny. I reckon you would be lucky to get enough in the right place for long enough without getting any, where it was not needed, causing marks. Hence why I suggested the reamer. ... and yes, better still at the coater's expense. __________________

24-11-2016, 03:40 PM	#2
pegboy Guest Posts: n/a	For me over that amount of time I'd go through the entire bike before even thinking or riding it, change Oil, Fuel, Air and oil filters, all fluids, clutch and brakes, belts, plugs, tyres, forks, if your powder coating the wheels then replace wheel bearings, cush drives (Good Luck) then sorry for stating the obvious, battery and lights. That's your starting point, I would have a look in the top of the carbs if clean (ish)? I'd try it, but before you try to start her up, I'd crank the bike over and make sure the oil light goes out before she starts, with no plugs in, then go for it fire it up, but. oh and when you have the plugs out squirt some oil into the cylinders. Once you have run her for a bit and warmed her up, change the oil and filter again. Hope it helps

24-11-2016, 06:43 PM	#3
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	I speak from what I've heard rather than from personal experience but I would be looking out for a misbehaving fuel pump (assuming that you have the vacuum/diaphragm type). I've heard that the diaphragms don't like to be left dry .. which it may well have been. If memory serves though, a rebuild kit for the pump can be had from Allen's Performance. If you also have a vacuum fuel tap, then the same might apply there. Earlier models had a manual tap though. I would start it with the carbs left pretty much untouched, and see how it goes. Old fuel may have gummied up the works a bit, but equally you may have no problem. I would wait for a carb problem to surface rather than looking for one first .. you may well get lucky. Just drain any old fuel from tank and float bowls, and refill with new. Be aware that it takes a bit of cranking on the starter motor to refill the float bowls with fuel before it will start, so don't expect instant firing. Unless you prime the bowls yourself (I know Dookbob does this, with a syringe).

24-11-2016, 07:31 PM	#4
Big Daft Lad Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gordon Bike: M600 Posts: 95	Hmm, I've no idea what kind of fuel pump is on it. It's a 96 600. But thanks for all the ideas, I'll work my way through the lot. I feel bad about leaving it for so long but at least it's been in a dry well aired shed. I took the wheels to the powder Coater's today. Last night was fun trying to get the cush drive bushes out. What a bang they went off with when they came out. I've got new ones and new bearings to fit when the wheels are back. There's a bit of corrosion on the swing arm where stones have chipped the paint do I'm going to clean that up an paint it when the wheel's out. Your thinking is good regarding the carbs, I'll see if there is a problem before creating one by stripping them. Roll on April...can't wait! I've missed riding the wee fella.

26-11-2016, 09:52 AM	#6
Unit 18 Guest Posts: n/a	I'd suggest to start by getting it going enough to see if the carbs are any good, left for that amount of time it would be my biggest concern.

01-12-2016, 03:50 PM	#7
Big Daft Lad Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gordon Bike: M600 Posts: 95	Went to pick up the wheels today. The Muppets have coated the cush drive sockets. Sigh. I wouldn't mind but I went through the whole thing what needed done and what I wanted masked in detail.

01-12-2016, 06:59 PM	#8
Nottsbiker Guest Posts: n/a	Original nitromors will remove powder coated bits if you have some and are careful

01-12-2016, 08:20 PM	#12
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Gazza makes a fair point but I dunno whether shotblasting will have affected the actual sizing very much. It will certainly have affected the surface finish but these are not bearing housings, they merely need to be accurate in position and size to accept rubber bushes and retain them firmly. ....and by all accounts, they are a VERY firm fit when new. Of course one approach would be to consider that the powdercoaters made the mistake and so its their responsibility to put it right. Downside to that is they may not be as careful as you would be. But it might be worth asking ... they might have some suggestions. If the bearings are out then you could try softening the powdercoat with a heatgun or blowtorch maybe. I'm just thinking aloud here though .. I dunno whether it softens with heat or not. Capo reckoned that acetone softened the powdercoat on his engine cases enough to be able to scratch it away, but I think he was only dealing with a very small area.

02-12-2016, 12:28 PM	#15
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Did they blast and coat the bearing housings too ? I would be slightly more concerned about that. But then again, I don't know whether it would actually cause a problem .. it may sound worse than it actually is. I guess it might even be the case that a light shotblasting would tighten up the fit of the bearings rather than loosen them, due to the burring of the surfaces (rather like multiple centrepunch dots). I guess only time will tell. Either way, there can be no excuse whatsoever for coating the bearing surfaces so I think you have a good case for recompense. Good luck.