Threaded sump plug - nightmare!

alan s4 · 05-03-2021, 01:54 PM

I've changed the oil dozens of times over the years and I'm always careful with the filter and sump plug.......

Changing the oil this afternoon and noticed that the sump plug (changed to a bolt type instead of the original hex type last year) wasn't tightening up. Not over torqued as I hadn't got to that stage yet!

Plug now turning in both directions without tightening or coming out. Clearly threaded.

What are my options?

1. Helicoil feasible?

2. Can the sump be changed without splitting the cases?

alan s4 · 05-03-2021, 02:06 PM

Forget option 2 - just looked at a parts diagram.

Option 3 - Tapping a larger diameter and using a bigger plug?

Luddite · 05-03-2021, 02:44 PM

I know Timesert do dedicated sump plug replacement kits. https://www.timesert.com/html/drainplug.html

slob · 05-03-2021, 02:47 PM

Helicoil is possible, but not all that easy. If you've used helicoils before you'll be aware of possible pitfalls, I wouldn't recommend trying it as a first foray into re-threading.

slob · 05-03-2021, 02:54 PM

Timesert is definitely the best helicoil option, much more secure than the spring type insert. (If you're not familiar with timeserts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggz8AguYtKM) Still need to keep as much swarf as possible out of the case. Getting good working access will be half the battle.

Mr Gazza · 05-03-2021, 05:49 PM

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found the thread in the sump to be intact and the "new" bolt stripped. I hope you have a happy outcome whatever happens, but I am puzzled at how you will end up removing the plug?

jerry · 06-03-2021, 09:17 AM

Only problem with Timeserts is the price of the kits ,, 5 times more than Helicoils

alan s4 · 06-03-2021, 10:13 AM

Thanks all. Looking at the options and I'm going to get someone else to do the work. Will report back with findings.

Pedro · 06-03-2021, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry

Only problem with Timeserts is the price of the kits ,, 5 times more than Helicoils

But about ten times a better solution. Fit and forget

motomartin11 · 06-03-2021, 01:29 PM

Interesting thread this...I've got a weep from the sump plug on my M750 and have got to change the washer .Annoying as I've just dropped the oil but I don't change the washer every time I do an oil change-my own fault I suppose...The hex on my sump plug is worn and I have bought a magnetic drain plug with a conventional bolt head to replace it. I'm always worried about stripped threads as they seem to be a common occurrence on old bikes. Never had much luck with helicoils but that's probably down to my lack of skill / experience with them.

slob · 06-03-2021, 02:33 PM

The trick with Timeserts is to pick the right depth insert. It's the last few threads that expand to lock the insert in place, so with eg. your crankcase you want to select one (as close as possible to) the same depth as the through-hole to ensure the expanded section of insert is gripping metal and not thin air inside the sump.

alan s4 · 16-03-2021, 08:51 AM

Sorted over the weekend. Ended up going with Helicoil mainly down to cost (65.00 for the kit) and it's what my mechanic recommended as a initial starting point.

The main issue was getting the threaded sump bolt out. Luckily I had changed to the bolt type sump plug (as opposed to the recessed hex original style) a few years ago. We made an extractor tool using a slide hammer and mole grips. An hour later it was out. It would have been much more difficult to remove a hex type sump plug!

The helicoil was inserted smoothly and the cutting tool made light work of the alloy.

Lesson learnt.......do not ever tighten the sump plug to 42NM. That's the value in the Haynes manual

Ron1000 · 16-03-2021, 08:55 AM

Well done sir.

What’s the Ducati torque out of interest.

alan s4 · 16-03-2021, 09:05 AM

That's the thing, 42NM seems to be correct for 916 engines. I'm going back to my instincts and using a new crush washer with each oil change and then nipping up half a turn.

Luddite · 16-03-2021, 09:19 AM

Good news - well done!

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s4

Lesson learnt.......do not ever tighten the sump plug to 42NM. That's the value in the Haynes manual

42Nm also appears in a lot of the Ducati workshop manuals but, as you've found to your cost, it's incorrect. For example, the text of my Evo manual says 42Nm but, in the table of torque settings at the end of the manual, it says 20Nm (+/- 5%), which is the correct figure. (The gauze filter and plug are both 42Nm though.)

05-03-2021, 01:54 PM	#1
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Threaded sump plug - nightmare! I've changed the oil dozens of times over the years and I'm always careful with the filter and sump plug....... Changing the oil this afternoon and noticed that the sump plug (changed to a bolt type instead of the original hex type last year) wasn't tightening up. Not over torqued as I hadn't got to that stage yet! Plug now turning in both directions without tightening or coming out. Clearly threaded. What are my options? 1. Helicoil feasible? 2. Can the sump be changed without splitting the cases?

05-03-2021, 05:49 PM	#6
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,801	I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found the thread in the sump to be intact and the "new" bolt stripped. I hope you have a happy outcome whatever happens, but I am puzzled at how you will end up removing the plug? __________________

06-03-2021, 09:17 AM	#7
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,810	Only problem with Timeserts is the price of the kits ,, 5 times more than Helicoils __________________ MONSTERMAN

05-03-2021, 02:06 PM	#2
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Forget option 2 - just looked at a parts diagram. Option 3 - Tapping a larger diameter and using a bigger plug?

05-03-2021, 02:44 PM	#3
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	I know Timesert do dedicated sump plug replacement kits. https://www.timesert.com/html/drainplug.html

05-03-2021, 02:47 PM	#4
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,708	Helicoil is possible, but not all that easy. If you've used helicoils before you'll be aware of possible pitfalls, I wouldn't recommend trying it as a first foray into re-threading.

05-03-2021, 02:54 PM	#5
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,708	Timesert is definitely the best helicoil option, much more secure than the spring type insert. (If you're not familiar with timeserts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggz8AguYtKM) Still need to keep as much swarf as possible out of the case. Getting good working access will be half the battle.

06-03-2021, 10:13 AM	#8
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Thanks all. Looking at the options and I'm going to get someone else to do the work. Will report back with findings.

06-03-2021, 01:29 PM	#10
motomartin11 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: stourbridge Bike: M750 Posts: 352	Interesting thread this...I've got a weep from the sump plug on my M750 and have got to change the washer .Annoying as I've just dropped the oil but I don't change the washer every time I do an oil change-my own fault I suppose...The hex on my sump plug is worn and I have bought a magnetic drain plug with a conventional bolt head to replace it. I'm always worried about stripped threads as they seem to be a common occurrence on old bikes. Never had much luck with helicoils but that's probably down to my lack of skill / experience with them.

06-03-2021, 02:33 PM	#11
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,708	The trick with Timeserts is to pick the right depth insert. It's the last few threads that expand to lock the insert in place, so with eg. your crankcase you want to select one (as close as possible to) the same depth as the through-hole to ensure the expanded section of insert is gripping metal and not thin air inside the sump.

16-03-2021, 08:51 AM	#12
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Sorted over the weekend. Ended up going with Helicoil mainly down to cost (65.00 for the kit) and it's what my mechanic recommended as a initial starting point. The main issue was getting the threaded sump bolt out. Luckily I had changed to the bolt type sump plug (as opposed to the recessed hex original style) a few years ago. We made an extractor tool using a slide hammer and mole grips. An hour later it was out. It would have been much more difficult to remove a hex type sump plug! The helicoil was inserted smoothly and the cutting tool made light work of the alloy. Lesson learnt.......do not ever tighten the sump plug to 42NM. That's the value in the Haynes manual

16-03-2021, 08:55 AM	#13
Ron1000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Livingston Bike: M1100evo Posts: 863	Well done sir. What’s the Ducati torque out of interest.

16-03-2021, 09:05 AM	#14
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	That's the thing, 42NM seems to be correct for 916 engines. I'm going back to my instincts and using a new crush washer with each oil change and then nipping up half a turn.