M750 Side Stand - Page 2

Darren69 · 27-04-2021, 08:16 AM

The flip up type are fine in theory but in practice it is too easy to knock the bike and over it goes.

My 748 which I have converted to non-flip up, you just have to remember to flip the stand before you drive off as there's no safety cut out or warning on those fitted with the flip up type. I've never had any issues with it as it is like most bikes of a certain age.

Flip · 27-04-2021, 09:18 AM

Ducati have always gone about this in a somewhat odd manner, first by introducing the ‘flip up’ side stand the idea of which was to prevent the rider from moving off with the stand down- in reality this simply cost owners a fortune in damaged bodywork as their bikes toppled over at the slightest breeze.

Then around 1999/2000 they introduced a switch that prevented the bike from being started at all while on the side stand- meaning owners could no longer warm up their bikes’ engine without it being sat on with the stand up. There was (as Utopia did) a mod to get around this oddity.

Yet by the late ‘80’s, early ‘90’s pretty much every Japanese motorcycle had a Clutch/Side Stand/Starter Button interlock circuit put in place to ensure the right combination of in neutral/side stand down/in gear/clutch lever pulled in was in place before the starter motor would engage.

As Darren says, bikes of a ‘certain age’ (like riders perhaps) didn’t have these ‘luxuries’ so learnt pretty quick to ensure all was good before riding off.

PPuxley · 27-04-2021, 09:49 AM

Thanks for all the replies.
Utopia, I have done a similar diode set up on the Jota
Flip, good point on the relying on the neutral circuit earth path, if its dodgy.
I have just done a full clutch/neutral interlock on another bike so will have a think about how this might be implemeted here.
Nice colour wiring diagram, Crust...thats going in the file. I spent a bit of time following that circuit on a black and white copy and kept going round in circles, I need to look at it again with a large Gin and Tonic in hand, I think!

Darren69 · 27-04-2021, 10:30 AM

The other method used on some older Ducati pre-flip up stand was to include a warning light on the dash, but if you get in the habit of checking that then you might just as well look down and check the stand is up.

The cut out thing is all very well but like Utopia I have disabled it so the bike can be warmed up on the side stand which is much more useful. It will still cut out if the bike is put into gear though with the stand down.

I'm not sure it would be very straight forward or even worthwhile to retro fit the cut out interlock on an older bike.

PPuxley · 27-04-2021, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren69

The other method used on some older Ducati pre-flip up stand was to include a warning light on the dash, but if you get in the habit of checking that then you might just as well look down and check the stand is up.

The cut out thing is all very well but like Utopia I have disabled it so the bike can be warmed up on the side stand which is much more useful. It will still cut out if the bike is put into gear though with the stand down.

I'm not sure it would be very straight forward or even worthwhile to retro fit the cut out interlock on an older bike.

Im think I can devise the system and fit it.
My concern would be this situation.
Side stand down, bike in neutral, sat on bike, engine running. Ive Forgotten that side stand is down, clutch in, weight slightly forward in anticipation of moving off, snick it into first, engine cuts (because the interlock has worked), youre all out of balance and caught by surprise because youve gone nowhere and you topple........or am I over thinking it!!!

Darren69 · 27-04-2021, 11:22 AM

Your right it could catch you out in that situation, although the monster is small and light enough you could be ok. I mean it's not like a Jota where I can only get tip toes on the floor. I've never really had the situation arise but I have tested the mod actually works and cuts out when I try to pull off with the stand down, but then I was anticipating it to.

Another option maybe to fit a centre stand. I believe one was offered for the early bikes and may be in Flips DP catalogue but also the ST style main stand could in theory fit an early bike. There have been some threads on here discussing such an option but I don't know how straightforward that would be? Food for thought.

The Laverda main stand is a really good thing and works really well and is so well balanced even for a wimp like me to haul such a great heavy lump up (on level ground), the side stand on my Mirage however is clearly the work of Satan is so unstable and so far forward it cannot even be deployed while you are sat on the bike.

utopia · 27-04-2021, 11:30 AM

Well yes, I think you probably are over thinking it.
At least, that's never happened to me since I fitted the diode a good few years ago (of course it couldn't happen with the std system).
But better to over think than under think things, in my book.
Maybe you wouldn't shift your balance when snicking it into gear but rather you would wait until you started to release the clutch before doing that .....?? (a minor difference I accept, but perhaps a significant one).

PPuxley · 27-04-2021, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

Well yes, I think you probably are over thinking it.
At least, that's never happened to me since I fitted the diode a good few years ago (of course it couldn't happen with the std system).
But better to over think than under think things, in my book.
Maybe you wouldn't shift your balance when snicking it into gear but rather you would wait until you started to release the clutch before doing that .....?? (a minor difference I accept, but perhaps a significant one).

Sound thinking, and if it hasnt happened to you, it sounds like thats the way I will try, thanks

27-04-2021, 08:16 AM	#16
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	The flip up type are fine in theory but in practice it is too easy to knock the bike and over it goes. My 748 which I have converted to non-flip up, you just have to remember to flip the stand before you drive off as there's no safety cut out or warning on those fitted with the flip up type. I've never had any issues with it as it is like most bikes of a certain age. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

27-04-2021, 09:18 AM	#17
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	Ducati have always gone about this in a somewhat odd manner, first by introducing the ‘flip up’ side stand the idea of which was to prevent the rider from moving off with the stand down- in reality this simply cost owners a fortune in damaged bodywork as their bikes toppled over at the slightest breeze. Then around 1999/2000 they introduced a switch that prevented the bike from being started at all while on the side stand- meaning owners could no longer warm up their bikes’ engine without it being sat on with the stand up. There was (as Utopia did) a mod to get around this oddity. Yet by the late ‘80’s, early ‘90’s pretty much every Japanese motorcycle had a Clutch/Side Stand/Starter Button interlock circuit put in place to ensure the right combination of in neutral/side stand down/in gear/clutch lever pulled in was in place before the starter motor would engage. As Darren says, bikes of a ‘certain age’ (like riders perhaps) didn’t have these ‘luxuries’ so learnt pretty quick to ensure all was good before riding off. __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

27-04-2021, 09:49 AM	#18
PPuxley Registered User Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Reading Bike: M900 Posts: 600	Thanks for all the replies. Utopia, I have done a similar diode set up on the Jota Flip, good point on the relying on the neutral circuit earth path, if its dodgy. I have just done a full clutch/neutral interlock on another bike so will have a think about how this might be implemeted here. Nice colour wiring diagram, Crust...thats going in the file. I spent a bit of time following that circuit on a black and white copy and kept going round in circles, I need to look at it again with a large Gin and Tonic in hand, I think! __________________ Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop.

27-04-2021, 10:30 AM	#19
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	The other method used on some older Ducati pre-flip up stand was to include a warning light on the dash, but if you get in the habit of checking that then you might just as well look down and check the stand is up. The cut out thing is all very well but like Utopia I have disabled it so the bike can be warmed up on the side stand which is much more useful. It will still cut out if the bike is put into gear though with the stand down. I'm not sure it would be very straight forward or even worthwhile to retro fit the cut out interlock on an older bike. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

27-04-2021, 11:22 AM	#21
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,022	Your right it could catch you out in that situation, although the monster is small and light enough you could be ok. I mean it's not like a Jota where I can only get tip toes on the floor. I've never really had the situation arise but I have tested the mod actually works and cuts out when I try to pull off with the stand down, but then I was anticipating it to. Another option maybe to fit a centre stand. I believe one was offered for the early bikes and may be in Flips DP catalogue but also the ST style main stand could in theory fit an early bike. There have been some threads on here discussing such an option but I don't know how straightforward that would be? Food for thought. The Laverda main stand is a really good thing and works really well and is so well balanced even for a wimp like me to haul such a great heavy lump up (on level ground), the side stand on my Mirage however is clearly the work of Satan is so unstable and so far forward it cannot even be deployed while you are sat on the bike. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

27-04-2021, 11:30 AM	#22
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,545	Well yes, I think you probably are over thinking it. At least, that's never happened to me since I fitted the diode a good few years ago (of course it couldn't happen with the std system). But better to over think than under think things, in my book. Maybe you wouldn't shift your balance when snicking it into gear but rather you would wait until you started to release the clutch before doing that .....?? (a minor difference I accept, but perhaps a significant one).