it just stopped!..here we go again ..

Hi All .. I need help with electrics (again!)..I’ve a ’93 M800ie -it’s got Leo Vince carbon cans, power commander unit and semi open air box – flies along…but -- here’s what happened: out for about an hour on a reasonably hot day –temps in the low 30’s C and after a coffee break decided to take the Itoshima mountain route home. –plenty of fuel on board. Headed up into the lower part of the mts and when coming around a nicely cambered uphill left corner on the gas –the motor just stopped!..no warning, no scary sounds – just like someone had turned the key off, the only light showing was the red engine warning light. Rolled to a stop about 3km from anywhere and after cursing in several languages called the missus for rescue!
So, with plenty of time to wait started going thru the things I could –turned the ignition off, waited and turned it back on – the bike ran thru its diagnostic check sequence, all dash lights went off except the red engine warning light, fuel pump made an audible sound – hit the start button – nothin’…
Next, checked the fuses, all ok (even swapped the ECU fuse over to check), checked the ECU ground wire, the coils wires, check the power commander start sequence –all ok and turned on the ignition again (diagnostic check sequence ok, fuel pump ok) – except for the red engine warning light – hit the start button and nothin’..No start motor action. Horn, indicators, high beam and brake lights all functioning.
Next, lift the tank and replace the relays next to the ECU (last breakdown was a faulty set of these so on the Brains Trust advice I carry a spare set along w plugs) – try the ignition again – same as before (the red engine warning light still on) ..no start motor action.. So, change the plugs and try again..same –nothin’…running out of options..
Replacing the relays and plugs back to pre-stop condition I sit n wait in the 32degreeC shade for rescue to arrive..!! an hour passes – slowly. So I decide to give it another try… Turn on the ignition, fuel pump whirs, diagnostic check sequence runs ok and the red engine warning light stays on.. I hit the start button and –surprise! – the start motor turns over but the engine shows no sign of firing up..damn! I haven’t checked to see if there is spark being delivered to the plugs – but I’m guessing not..
Rescue arrives and we truck the bike home to Karastsu –some Y25,000 later the bike sits in the garage…virtually life-less. Tried to start it again (diagnostic check sequence ok, fuel pump, lights, pc all ok) the red engine warning light remains on. Interestingly – the start motor no longer responds..nothin. I’m at a loss – where to start , what could it be..has anyone had the same experience, does anyone have some concrete advice…this Monster is starting to give me the sh*ts..seems I get about four rides out of it before there’s another expensive break down..my Japanese buddies are laughing!..well, not to my face – but I know they are!

[slob]

Next thing I'd try is completely removing the Power Commander.

Have you checked the battery voltage? May the RR packed in and you just lost power?

Originally Posted by slob

Next thing I'd try is completely removing the Power Commander.

Hi all - took a break but back into it now...
Removed the P/C and no change - engine runs thru the diagnostic check ok but red engine warning light still stays on. Hit the start button and ..nada!
Checked the battery - full and strong (it's a new battery - see previous post- and I've a new Shindengen R/R installed - charging is rock steady!..both done a few months back.)
So...I'm thinking..power is ok and on..engine diag runs thru..no starter action- maybe it's the starter solenoid..but that raises more Q's. if it were, would the s/s remain in a 'closed' position continually feeding current to the starter motor - with it continually running? Would it cook the s/s and burn it out? Wouldn't these cause a fuse to blow (which hasn't occurred)?.. you'll notice my (lack of) electrics knowledge showing now!
So - I'm thinking the start solenoid is cactus.. I've removed the item and tested it with spare battery and wires to every conceivable option.. no audible 'click' is coming from the unit. I tested it with a multimeter for continuity but not sure of what I'm finding and what I should be looking for.. Also ran a wire directly from the battery to the starter motor and there is start-motor action - so that works!
Now - here's a Q.. turned the ignition on, diag procedure ran thru ok ..and the red engine warning light still stays on - without the start solenoid in the circuit..wtf is goin on there!?
Also - Checked the ignition switch for broken wires - all seems good up there. Also read on-line that it could be the 'kill' switch on the bars..hmmmm...doubtful..

Wat now?.......

[Darren69]

So does the bike start and run ok when you connect the starter to the battery? If so then its the solenoid. I don't think the starter solenoid is part of the diag canbus its mostly injectors and associated injection system sensors.

[Grumpy]

Has the ecu been checked?
My S4 showed similar symptoms when the ecu went u/s.
The bike coughed and died, the engine would turn over but no spark. I changed plugs, caps and leads, checked the coils, no feed.
Took the bike to the local dealer who ran a diagnostic which showed a fault within the ecu.
Has a full diagnostic been performed?

Hi Darren69... i'll give that a go today - wont that screw something else electrical up? I'm thinking that the starter solenoid wouldn't be part of the diag process either, like you. But- what do I know?! I'm also thinking if the starter solenoid failed - would that cause the engine to just stop - like the key had been turned off?? The fact that the red engine warning light stays on is 'unfathomable'... or am I gong down the path of replacing every conceivable electrical unit as an elimination process - 'cos that'd be just silly!!

Hi Grumpy, I'm hoping it's not the ecu ---cos that'd be really expensive!! I had an engine failure a few months back that turned out to be relays .. so, the wallet dodged a bullet there! As I cant get it to run - I cant get it to the Dr for a full diagnostic - the closest is 80km away. I could by a Honda for that cost!!.....don't say anything!
Do you know of any checks I can do at home that will reveal or eliminate faults??

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by GeoffM800

Hi Grumpy, I'm hoping it's not the ecu ---cos that'd be really expensive!! I had an engine failure a few months back that turned out to be relays .. so, the wallet dodged a bullet there! As I cant get it to run - I cant get it to the Dr for a full diagnostic - the closest is 80km away. I could by a Honda for that cost!!.....don't say anything!
Do you know of any checks I can do at home that will reveal or eliminate faults??

You could consider purchasing a diagnostic kit?
http://probike.co.uk/it080007.htm

Or purchase an ecu?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-04-DUCA...QAAOSwGzxZg2Kf

Personally I would go for the diagnostic kit as it has long term benefit's

Hi Darren69 - just thinking a bit further... the red engine warning light is still on with the Starter solenoid removed -- not sure what that means. Does it indicate the problem is somewhere else..will attempting a start by bypassing the solenoid lead to causing more trouble or will it just fail to start? I don't want to screw anything else up, complicating matters, if you know what I mean.
I could remove the plugs and check for a spark??..tho this'd only tell me current is getting to the plugs -- would that indicate that the prob is in the ..engine management area?? this is like stumbling around in the dark w your feet tied together!!

Hi Grumpy ..thanks for those links!!..
"..an affordable engine diagnostic kit.." seven hundred quid!...an attempt at humour? tho I do agree, there are some advantages because at this point I have nfi what's failed and what hasn't...and replacing the ecu may not be the problem..but still, seven hundred quid for a one (maybe two?) time use is a bit hard to swallow...

[Darren69]

There's a free ware diagnostic utility available. Isn't anybody still using it?

http://jpdiag.akress.com/

You need to purchase 2 leads which will set you back about £10

[boris]

Have you tried using one of your other ignition keys? Long shot, but maybe the key you were using has decided not to talk to the engine immobilizer. What does the code light do when you go through the pre-start?

[jerry]

i use Jp diag on my S4 and several other injection bikes in Thailand its useful

hi Boris - yep..tried the other key. No joy!