Slow Monster rebuild

[350TSS]

Today I made some progress although I am waiting for some specialist bolts to absolutely be sure that I have solved my rear caliper/disc lateral positioning/brake hanger interface issue.
At the start of the morning the disc was attached to the wheel boss sitting on spacers 10mm thick, if the caliper was through bolted to the hanger on the outside of the hanger, the centre-line of the disc was c 8 to 9 mm outboard of the centre-line of the caliper. Easy I thought, just spacer the disc off the wheel by the requisite distance.
When I got the wheel out I was not comfortable with that solution as the aluminium wheel boss to which the disc is attached only has about 15 mm of thread depth and there would be circa 18 to 20mm of spacer between the disc and the wheel boss which is quite a lot of leverage for an 8 mm aluminium thread.
I decided instead to bolt the caliper to the to the inside of the brake hanger with the bolts threading outwards. The downsides are that a) the bolts will have to be countersunk otherwise the heads will hit the disc, b) obviously I will also have to countersink the two attachment bolt holes on the inner face of the caliper casting mounting lugs and c) from a maintenance perspective caliper removal can only be possible by removing the rear wheel. Upside is that all the spacers between the wheel hub and the disc can be dispensed with and the 6 x steel bolts can all be 20mm shorter so overall a lighter solution. The disc attachment bolts have to be steel to trigger the magnetic speedometer sensor.

Next I decided to modify my tool tray as I think with the ride height adjusters in place there is a slight danger the suspension rocker will hit it at or near to full bump. This involved cutting a section out of the leading edge, making a 1mm polypropylene mould then laying up 3 laminations of CF.

Finally, I set about fitting the clutch hydraulic pipe and finding a suitable route for it. Annoyingly the original pipe is about 40 to 50mm too long, not surprising since I am using clip on handlebars. Tomorrow I will try to determine the lengths for the 2 x front and 1 x rear brake hoses (and the angles for the union eyes on each end and will then get them all made up) HEL, Venhills, Goodridge - any recommendations???

[350TSS]

Slob: I think the theory is that with 6 cups and springs there is the possibility for the pressure plate to move outwards on its splines at an angle or more likely as the clutch is released and the pressure plate starts to bite on the stack of plates for the spring cups to wander around the post causing the pressure plate to cam into the splines on drive take up. By effectively connecting the cups together rigidly it limits that possibility. Probably that is complete bollox.

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by slob

still don’t see how it evens up spring pressure

Agreed as the springs are still held the same way - it's not like individual the caps move around.

I've got 'spider' retainers on both of my Ducati clutches primarily because I like the look, but there is a possible benefit with regards to if the bike goes down in that individual clutch posts are less likely to catch on anything or break off due to the plate spreading the load evenly?

I had the centre hub nut come undone on my 916 which had a carbon half clutch cover on it at the time. This caused the entire clutch pack to work it's way out of the casing and rather than the individual posts (potentially?) catching on the cover and ripping it off, the retainer smoothly ran on the cover for a while longer than it might have otherwise - until of course it cut right through the cover, at which point the entire clutch hub assembly ejected from the basket, lodged itself into the fairing and spat the cush rubbers onto the road.

However in this I case think that, maybe it got me a little bit further along the road than it might have if I'd had individual caps fitted??

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Slob: I think the theory is that with 6 cups and springs there is the possibility for the pressure plate to move outwards on its splines at an angle or more likely as the clutch is released and the pressure plate starts to bite on the stack of plates for the spring cups to wander around the post causing the pressure plate to cam into the splines on drive take up. By effectively connecting the cups together rigidly it limits that possibility. Probably that is complete bollox.

On the other hand, I've seen it suggested that unequal pressures on the springs can promote some wobble and aid the un-pealing of the plates as the clutch disengages, and presumably help with a smoother engagement rather than an in-or-out action. Perhaps that concept hails from a time when men were men and their 'bike engines dribbled oil!

Nick

[350TSS]

Hard day today, lots of little jobs none of which are photogenic, e.g. shortening bolts x 10 so the nyloc is fully engaged but no more, making earth leads, rubbing down all the parts that will be painted mat black ready for a final top coat, making up the petrol pipes and the real PITA re-fitting the throttle cables which I eventually abandoned unfinished.
I did not realise until I checked them for broken or frayed strands that the two throttle cables were different lengths and when I took them off about 3 years ago I did not mark them as to which went where. It is obvious that the cable ends going into the twist grip are different because they have different diameter threaded adjusters but not at all obvious at the carburetor end.
Getting the cables routed into the twist grip itself was very frustrating and I finally gave up for the day when confronted with trying to fit the other end of the cables to the quadrant on the carburetors. I had run out of love for Ducatis at that point.

[350TSS]

Incidentally the Delboy's garage tip when shortening a bolt to cut a hacksaw cut across one flat of a nut and hold the bolt and nut in the vice via two flats of the nut really works. The bolt to be shortened is gripped sufficiently for it not to turn when the hacksaw blade is applied and the thread is still good enough to clean off the end of the thread when the bolt is shortened.
Afterwards I usually put the bolt head in my battery drill and spin it at 45 degrees to the running grindstone to provide a clean lead in.

[Darren69]

Originally Posted by Dukedesmo

Agreed as the springs are still held the same way - it's not like individual the caps move around.

I've got 'spider' retainers on both of my Ducati clutches primarily because I like the look, but there is a possible benefit with regards to if the bike goes down in that individual clutch posts are less likely to catch on anything or break off due to the plate spreading the load evenly?

I had the centre hub nut come undone on my 916 which had a carbon half clutch cover on it at the time. This caused the entire clutch pack to work it's way out of the casing and rather than the individual posts (potentially?) catching on the cover and ripping it off, the retainer smoothly ran on the cover for a while longer than it might have otherwise - until of course it cut right through the cover, at which point the entire clutch hub assembly ejected from the basket, lodged itself into the fairing and spat the cush rubbers onto the road.

However in this I case think that, maybe it got me a little bit further along the road than it might have if I'd had individual caps fitted??

I'm not convinced about these either. I think they probably masking the other issues with the standard Ducati dry clutch and in the event of an off having the posts joined together may actually contribute to them all breaking off, but that's theoretical.

What I can say is that the standard die cast clutch isn't the best. My own experience was following changing the friction plates on my 748 to the sintered type in the standard clutch and in doing so I created a bike that only I could pull off on, everybody else who tried to ride it would stall it a few times first. this was despite being warned beforehand that the clutch was sharp.

Even I used to get it to make that horrible squawking noise sometimes when I got it wrong. Anyway, I fitted a good quality aftermarket billet slipper clutch drum and ally basket and even with the same plates and all of a sudden its so much easier to ride. Easier to pull off and the gear changes so much smoother too.

The difference was night and day so I did the same with the S4 when I got that and I think the slipper makes more of a difference on that than it did on the smaller engine. To be expected really I suppose.

Maybe change the springs and even the pressure plate? I doubt that the spider is having an adverse effect but it's probably not doing much except add rotating weight. Anyway just my experiences.

[350TSS]

I struggled for about 2 hours trying to get the return throttle cable engaged in its quadrant, I just had to keep walking away from it and doing other little jobs. Stupidly I had engaged the pull cable first which was a piece of cake to fit but this severely restricted access for the return cable. Eventually, I took the pull cable off again although it still took me another half hour to get the return cable located.
In between buggering about with throttle cables I made up and routed the starter cable, on the left side, adjacent to the alternator cable, I also mounted the switches on both clip-ons. I decided against drilling 5 mm location holes in the bars but rather filed off the locating pegs on the switches, they seem to grip the bars adequately without rotating. The decision was partly because I do not like the idea of 5mm holes in the bars but mainly because it would have been a right pain to strip it down to drill the hole and I was nervous that once located it might have needed to be changed which may have necessitated another hole or filing down the locating pegs.
The rear caliper got the lugs countersunk, but I could not fit it as it got scratched so it had to be repainted.
The clutch slave cylinder also got fitted not without the drama of removing the powder coating from the locale where it sits.
I am now down (again) to c 120 hours on the ETTC.
Installing the wiring is next.

[350TSS]

Started on the wiring install today and found a few issues.
1. Using S4 master cylinders as I am (instead of the M900 "coffins"), the front brake light switch is different and I have already wired up to the old type.
2. Changing the position of the battery has meant that most leads to it or associated with parts of the loom that join with them are too long.
3. Whilst I made up a jig which was a reasonable facsimile of the frame and the positions of various electrical switches and then built the loom off the bike, in most places I have been far too generous with the cabling to those points resulting in quite a lot of gash loom. I have two choices here: 1. take the connectors off, shorten the wires and re-make the connectors or leave the connectors and just chop lumps out of the wires and re-join them (solder and sheath them with heat-shrink sleeves)
Option 1 is the right way to do it but will take me lots and lots of time
Option 2 I will always regret doing but is probably the way I will go, given that I want to finish this bike before they nail down the lid.

[manwithredbike]

Maybe you could draw the slack back and fold it somewhere out of sight in the loom? I think soldering multiple joints can lead to trouble later on, the copper adjacent to the solder will be brittle and prone to break where has been heated and annealed to some degree.

[350TSS]

MWRB: you have hit the nail on the head - precisely why I am reluctant to do it. Folding and hiding is not really possible, I just cannot bear the thought of having to make up all those AMP connectors and the undoubted time it will take. I avoided doing anything on the wiring today while I cogitate on what I should do - which I already know - I should do it properly.

[350TSS]

Avoiding wiring meant I had quite a productive day, first I made up some clips to hold on the front mudguard. The original plastic abominations that came with the forks were not recoverable so I made some out of 1 mm stainless steel. Originally I intended to simply pass a set screw through the 2 x 6 mm holes and put a nut inside.
After about an hour trying to locate the top most nuts I decided to drill all the inner holes in the clips out to 8.5 mm and fit rivnuts which aided assembly enormously. I had to trim about 4 mm off the front mudguard to clear the front fork gaiter. Picture below before the final trim of the guard as it just kisses the gaiter.



The chain oiler reservoir got fitted with quite a bit of buggering about getting the bolt length just right.
Finally I checked the alignment of the rear disc and this is the result.


It is about 1 mm out so tomorrow I will strip it down again and fit a 1 mm washer between the caliper and the brake plate and that will be as good as it needs to be.

[350TSS]

Or better still fit 6 x 1 mm SS washers between the disc and the hub

[Luddite]

If it wasn't for the loose wires dangling in the background, that could be the front wheel of a completed bike! Those carbon Dymags look proper special.

As you're running gaiters on your forks, have you removed the dust seals from the sliders? I know the racers run without them to minimise stiction and, since your gaiters are effectively doing the same job, they're not really necessary now.

[manwithredbike]

Originally Posted by 350TSS

MWRB: you have hit the nail on the head - precisely why I am reluctant to do it. Folding and hiding is not really possible, I just cannot bear the thought of having to make up all those AMP connectors and the undoubted time it will take. I avoided doing anything on the wiring today while I cogitate on what I should do - which I already know - I should do it properly.

I know how you feel man, and you know that in a few weeks or months time, the few hours of doing the proper job will be lost in time -- and you'll be glad you did.
Many jobs that i rushed in the past ended up giving me more trouble than they were worth in the long run.