Slow Monster rebuild - Page 76

Luddite · 02-02-2020, 05:00 PM

Beautiful!

utopia · 02-02-2020, 05:12 PM

That looks bloody gorgeous.
I thought about toning down the swearing but its too gorgeous for that.
And agreed about the solid blocks of colour.

Mark64 · 02-02-2020, 07:34 PM

Lovin your work fella, I'm a bit of a magpie, so I'm lovin all the shiny parts, keep the pictures coming, attention to detail, second to none

350TSS · 04-02-2020, 08:54 AM

Despite only a couple of hours in the garage yesterday I was hoping for some reasonable progress.
The first task now is to get the bike on its wheels so that it is a bit more secure on the bike lift.
The swinging arm was located and then I had an awful struggle to get the pivot pin through the shims, I could get the pin 3/4 of the way through from either side but could not get the shims to line up to push the pin into the far side of the swinging arm. Eventually, I resorted to a) grinding a small lead in to the titanium pivot and b) using the old shaft to locate the side with 2 shims (1 approximately a mm thick and the other about 0.2mm) then driving the new pin through from the other side. Mainly, it was just awkward (or me being cack-handed) as you needed to be both sides of the lift at the same time.
I tested the grease nipple and pumped the void around the SA spindle full of grease, oddly, rather than forcing its way past the SA bearing seals on either side it squeezed out between the crankcase halves.

350TSS · 04-02-2020, 09:41 AM

Next up was fitting the rear suspension unit which I bought at the start of this project and has sat unloved in a box ever since.
There was a slight delay as all the holes that have attachment bolts or provide any lateral support had to have the powder coating removed so the shock or the reaction hoop could be fitted.
Having not given the Nitron shock more than a cursory glance before I was very impressed with the quality of manufacture, the attachment eyes at either end have proper spherical bearings with nicely fitted anodised aluminium top hat bushes that have rubber "O" rings to protect the bearing from the ingress of grit etc.
There is a 23 stop adjuster at the lower end which has a nice positive engagement. If it works as well as it is made I shall be well pleased.

how long are betta fish supposed to live

Albie · 04-02-2020, 12:45 PM

Looking good. I'm so pleased with new progress.

350TSS · 04-02-2020, 05:16 PM

Thanks to all for the kind words of encouragement.
Started this morning with the fitting of the reaction hoop for the rear suspension which was a bit of a sod. First, neither of the new spherical rod ends would slide between the uprights welded to the SA as the powder coating was restricting the width, having filed the powder coating off, attached the rod ends to the hoop and got them level to within half a millimetre they would not engage in the uprights because I have fitted 25mm Stainless ride height adjusters. The extension pieces being at a slightly splayed angle following the profile of the hoop meant that the spherical bit with the hole in was about 1.5 mm too wide to locate in the uprights on the swinging arm. A quick clamp was employed to hold one side in place while I manipulated the other side.
Next the rear wheel was lined up and the rear axle would not go through the swinging arm, nor would the internal wheel adjuster blocks fit inside the SA. Another hour filing, I could have used acetone to soften it but did not trust myself to not cause other damage.
It was quite difficult to fit the wheel as the brake hanger on one side and the sprocket nuts on the other are perilously close to the SA.
Two problems emerged, the RH side chain adjuster fouls the brake hanger and the rear axle is not long enough.

The first I can deal with by trimming it down and re-polishing it. The second is a complete mystery as the SA spindle came from an S4 (25mm diameter) which has a wider wheel than the M900 so I am at a loss to understand why the axel is shorter. As it is the nuts on either side are only on about 2 threads a side.
Problem 3 is that the gear lever fouls my rear chain tensioner, by no means insuperable but annoying nevertheless.

I got the front forks roughly located in the yokes and attempted to put the front wheel in but my ratchet strap which is suspended from the rafters became coil bound and I could not lift the bike sufficiently to engage the front axle in the LH fork leg.
All in all solid if slightly frustrating progress today.

Dukedesmo · 04-02-2020, 10:15 PM

The rear axle maybe too short because it came from a steel swingarm?

The ally swingarm is made from thicker and wider section box so the M900 axle is longer than that of an M600/750, don't know about the S4 swingarm though?

Darren69 · 05-02-2020, 07:50 AM

All S4 had the ally arm afaIk. So maybe its not an S4 one. I could measure mine in the bike if that would help. It would give you a rough idea.

dacs · 05-02-2020, 09:10 AM

My understanding (could be wrong, it's Ducati we are dealing with) is that all the alloy swing arms are the same basic dimensions. If so, the axle length is 322mm excluding the formed flange with the allen key hole in it.

350TSS · 05-02-2020, 08:46 PM

Thanks guys - I must have a rogue rear axle - it came with a load of S4 bits I bought and I assumed it was correct for the bike I bought for £500 (less tank, seat, wheels front calipers and master cylinder (and crucially rear axel)).
If I had checked my own S4 I would have noticed the rear wheel axle has a socket head and is more of a tubular bolt.
The first job today was to fit the front wheel. This was hampered by a struggle with the coil-bound ratchet strap which I could not release. I just have not the knack of doing this and I hate to think how many hours of my life I have wasted trying to release ratchet straps. Giving it best I tied two knots in the part of the strap attached to the rafter which raised the front end about 3 inches and I got the front axle in.
It rapidly dawned on me that I was missing a spacer on the LH side as when I started to tighten the nut on the LH fork leg all that was happening was that it was bending the LH fork leg, other giveaways were the fact that the wheel was free to slide to the left until the LH disc hit the fork leg and there was no evidence of corrosion/exposure to the elements on the axle between the LH wheel bearing and the fork leg.

The next problem was how to determine when the wheel was central to the forks, I assumed that the disc rotor faces would be equidistant from the centre-line of the wheel and using a 6" ruler on the outside face of the rotor and using a Sharpie pen marked the ruler with the distance to the inside clamping face of each of the fork bottoms.
I adjusted the gap either way until they were equal. The bottom axle clamps were then nipped up.
The wheel spacer required needed to be the same as the distance between the inner race on the LH wheel bearing and the machined flat surface on the fork leg.
Measuring had to be done in situ so I used one of my internal sprung gauges.
This presented two further problems 1. the ends of the gauges are convex and the inner wheel bearing race was narrower than the diameter of the head of the gauge so it was a bit of a lottery whether you were measuring to the outward face of the inner race or the dust seal, 2 the size of the head of the tee piece on the gauge caused the inner adjustable limb to miss the inner race altogether. However I positioned it. I was measuring a hypotenuse, not the right angle distance.
In the end, I took 5 measurements and averaged them.

Mr Gazza · 05-02-2020, 08:54 PM

I'm fairly sure that the space is usually occupied by the speedo drive gearbox. I guess if you are driving the speedo some other way (electronically?) then you will need a spacer instead. Maybe someone could mic up a gearbox for you to get the dim?

Edit.. Yeah, what Albie said.

Dukedesmo · 15-02-2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

I'm fairly sure that the space is usually occupied by the speedo drive gearbox. I guess if you are driving the speedo some other way (electronically?) then you will need a spacer instead. Maybe someone could mic up a gearbox for you to get the dim?

Edit.. Yeah, what Albie said.

I've had a couple made, for both the Monster and 916 - basically a 30mm long ally spacer.

Albie · 05-02-2020, 08:53 PM

would it not be same thickness as speedo drive unit ?

350TSS · 05-02-2020, 09:00 PM

I could have made a spacer that matched the diameter of the inner wheel bearing race (30mm), but in aluminium, this may have been too "crushable".
I decided the spacer should match the machined face on the inside of the fork leg (33mm).
Rather than a plain tube type bush which would leave the seal exposed to the elements, I opted for a wasted bush that fitted inside the bearing housing (50mm) and reduced to 33mm.
Here it is (needs a cleanup and a buff before I fit it)

This took a long time to make as I cannot hold 50mm bar in a 3 jaw chuck and had to use a 4 jaw which means a long time trying to get the workpiece to run true.

04-02-2020, 12:45 PM	#6
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,033	Looking good. I'm so pleased with new progress. __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

04-02-2020, 10:15 PM	#8
Dukedesmo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leics Bike: M900 Posts: 2,849	The rear axle maybe too short because it came from a steel swingarm? The ally swingarm is made from thicker and wider section box so the M900 axle is longer than that of an M600/750, don't know about the S4 swingarm though? __________________ M900, 916, LeMans II.

05-02-2020, 07:50 AM	#9
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,041	All S4 had the ally arm afaIk. So maybe its not an S4 one. I could measure mine in the bike if that would help. It would give you a rough idea. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

05-02-2020, 09:10 AM	#10
dacs Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Aylsham Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 194	My understanding (could be wrong, it's Ducati we are dealing with) is that all the alloy swing arms are the same basic dimensions. If so, the axle length is 322mm excluding the formed flange with the allen key hole in it. __________________ NFN

05-02-2020, 08:54 PM	#12
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,855	I'm fairly sure that the space is usually occupied by the speedo drive gearbox. I guess if you are driving the speedo some other way (electronically?) then you will need a spacer instead. Maybe someone could mic up a gearbox for you to get the dim? Edit.. Yeah, what Albie said. __________________

02-02-2020, 05:00 PM	#1
Luddite Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Southampton Bike: M1100evo Posts: 2,465	Beautiful!

02-02-2020, 05:12 PM	#2
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,546	That looks bloody gorgeous. I thought about toning down the swearing but its too gorgeous for that. And agreed about the solid blocks of colour.

02-02-2020, 07:34 PM	#3
Mark64 Bronze Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Hondon de los Frailes Bike: S4r Posts: 288	Lovin your work fella, I'm a bit of a magpie, so I'm lovin all the shiny parts, keep the pictures coming, attention to detail, second to none

04-02-2020, 08:54 AM	#4
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,421	Despite only a couple of hours in the garage yesterday I was hoping for some reasonable progress. The first task now is to get the bike on its wheels so that it is a bit more secure on the bike lift. The swinging arm was located and then I had an awful struggle to get the pivot pin through the shims, I could get the pin 3/4 of the way through from either side but could not get the shims to line up to push the pin into the far side of the swinging arm. Eventually, I resorted to a) grinding a small lead in to the titanium pivot and b) using the old shaft to locate the side with 2 shims (1 approximately a mm thick and the other about 0.2mm) then driving the new pin through from the other side. Mainly, it was just awkward (or me being cack-handed) as you needed to be both sides of the lift at the same time. I tested the grease nipple and pumped the void around the SA spindle full of grease, oddly, rather than forcing its way past the SA bearing seals on either side it squeezed out between the crankcase halves.

04-02-2020, 09:41 AM	#5
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,421	Next up was fitting the rear suspension unit which I bought at the start of this project and has sat unloved in a box ever since. There was a slight delay as all the holes that have attachment bolts or provide any lateral support had to have the powder coating removed so the shock or the reaction hoop could be fitted. Having not given the Nitron shock more than a cursory glance before I was very impressed with the quality of manufacture, the attachment eyes at either end have proper spherical bearings with nicely fitted anodised aluminium top hat bushes that have rubber "O" rings to protect the bearing from the ingress of grit etc. There is a 23 stop adjuster at the lower end which has a nice positive engagement. If it works as well as it is made I shall be well pleased. how long are betta fish supposed to live

04-02-2020, 05:16 PM	#7
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,421	Thanks to all for the kind words of encouragement. Started this morning with the fitting of the reaction hoop for the rear suspension which was a bit of a sod. First, neither of the new spherical rod ends would slide between the uprights welded to the SA as the powder coating was restricting the width, having filed the powder coating off, attached the rod ends to the hoop and got them level to within half a millimetre they would not engage in the uprights because I have fitted 25mm Stainless ride height adjusters. The extension pieces being at a slightly splayed angle following the profile of the hoop meant that the spherical bit with the hole in was about 1.5 mm too wide to locate in the uprights on the swinging arm. A quick clamp was employed to hold one side in place while I manipulated the other side. Next the rear wheel was lined up and the rear axle would not go through the swinging arm, nor would the internal wheel adjuster blocks fit inside the SA. Another hour filing, I could have used acetone to soften it but did not trust myself to not cause other damage. It was quite difficult to fit the wheel as the brake hanger on one side and the sprocket nuts on the other are perilously close to the SA. Two problems emerged, the RH side chain adjuster fouls the brake hanger and the rear axle is not long enough. The first I can deal with by trimming it down and re-polishing it. The second is a complete mystery as the SA spindle came from an S4 (25mm diameter) which has a wider wheel than the M900 so I am at a loss to understand why the axel is shorter. As it is the nuts on either side are only on about 2 threads a side. Problem 3 is that the gear lever fouls my rear chain tensioner, by no means insuperable but annoying nevertheless. I got the front forks roughly located in the yokes and attempted to put the front wheel in but my ratchet strap which is suspended from the rafters became coil bound and I could not lift the bike sufficiently to engage the front axle in the LH fork leg. All in all solid if slightly frustrating progress today.

05-02-2020, 08:46 PM	#11
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,421	Thanks guys - I must have a rogue rear axle - it came with a load of S4 bits I bought and I assumed it was correct for the bike I bought for £500 (less tank, seat, wheels front calipers and master cylinder (and crucially rear axel)). If I had checked my own S4 I would have noticed the rear wheel axle has a socket head and is more of a tubular bolt. The first job today was to fit the front wheel. This was hampered by a struggle with the coil-bound ratchet strap which I could not release. I just have not the knack of doing this and I hate to think how many hours of my life I have wasted trying to release ratchet straps. Giving it best I tied two knots in the part of the strap attached to the rafter which raised the front end about 3 inches and I got the front axle in. It rapidly dawned on me that I was missing a spacer on the LH side as when I started to tighten the nut on the LH fork leg all that was happening was that it was bending the LH fork leg, other giveaways were the fact that the wheel was free to slide to the left until the LH disc hit the fork leg and there was no evidence of corrosion/exposure to the elements on the axle between the LH wheel bearing and the fork leg. The next problem was how to determine when the wheel was central to the forks, I assumed that the disc rotor faces would be equidistant from the centre-line of the wheel and using a 6" ruler on the outside face of the rotor and using a Sharpie pen marked the ruler with the distance to the inside clamping face of each of the fork bottoms. I adjusted the gap either way until they were equal. The bottom axle clamps were then nipped up. The wheel spacer required needed to be the same as the distance between the inner race on the LH wheel bearing and the machined flat surface on the fork leg. Measuring had to be done in situ so I used one of my internal sprung gauges. This presented two further problems 1. the ends of the gauges are convex and the inner wheel bearing race was narrower than the diameter of the head of the gauge so it was a bit of a lottery whether you were measuring to the outward face of the inner race or the dust seal, 2 the size of the head of the tee piece on the gauge caused the inner adjustable limb to miss the inner race altogether. However I positioned it. I was measuring a hypotenuse, not the right angle distance. In the end, I took 5 measurements and averaged them.

05-02-2020, 08:53 PM	#14
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,033	would it not be same thickness as speedo drive unit ? __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

05-02-2020, 09:00 PM	#15
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,421	I could have made a spacer that matched the diameter of the inner wheel bearing race (30mm), but in aluminium, this may have been too "crushable". I decided the spacer should match the machined face on the inside of the fork leg (33mm). Rather than a plain tube type bush which would leave the seal exposed to the elements, I opted for a wasted bush that fitted inside the bearing housing (50mm) and reduced to 33mm. Here it is (needs a cleanup and a buff before I fit it) This took a long time to make as I cannot hold 50mm bar in a 3 jaw chuck and had to use a 4 jaw which means a long time trying to get the workpiece to run true.