Slow Monster rebuild - Page 50

Darren69 · 09-10-2018, 09:53 AM

Was thinking that as mine are the same, they are actually bolts rather than threaded bar.

350TSS · 09-10-2018, 09:25 PM

Will lock together two thin nuts to thread the bar into the other side of the frame when that is thread bound/tight will unlock the two thin nuts and put a nyloc in place of the two thin nuts and another nyloc to lock the other side of the threaded lug in the frame.
I think that will work

Darkness · 09-10-2018, 09:32 PM

Maybe? The challenge will be getting the half nuts off the stud as the recess in the frame is deep and fairly tight, plus you need the stud to end within the depth of the frame if you are to be able to put end caps over them.

Mr Gazza · 09-10-2018, 09:36 PM

Why don't you ask Big Oz nicely, if he can weld a Ti full-nut on the end and make it into a proper bolt.

How were you going to unlock the nuts when they are inside the frame tube, below the surface?. Difficult to hold the inner nut whilst undoing the outer one? Also sounds like a challenge to get the proper torque setting.

350TSS · 09-10-2018, 09:45 PM

Bugger - collectively I think you have got me there, I will not be able to unlock the inner lock nut inside the frame tube.
Corrosion should not be a problem either with the aluminium crankcase or steel of the frame as titanium has excellent resistance. So a good dose of copperslip and a slot cut in the bar end to enable removal with a large flat bladed screwdriver I think should work.
Thanks guys

Darkness · 09-10-2018, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Why don't you ask Big Oz nicely, if he can weld a Ti full-nut on the end and make it into a proper bolt.

What the man said. 👆🏽

That has to be a better solution than a slot, especially as it’s something to bug you until hopefully it works (Or doesn’t!).

350TSS · 11-10-2018, 10:18 AM

Welding a nut on is definitely the better solution for the engine bolts/studs.
Today, I threaded the 10mm titanium stub for the rear brake reaction rod mounting, drilled and lightened the two 8mm associated bolts and also machined up the Mk2 titanium SA spindle.
Had a couple of incidents with the titanium this is the first which I simply blew out,

the second involved flames about 300mm above the lathe and required the extinguisher rather than the iphone for pretty snaps. The extinguisher was a powder one so had about an hour getting all the powder off the lathe.
I also spent hours applying release agent to the CF patterns (5 coats on each except the tank and the seat where I discovered small blemishes that require just one more skim filling).

350TSS · 11-10-2018, 04:25 PM

Ordered my tyres a couple of days ago and they arrived this afternoon so I thought about a job I was not looking forward to – fitting them (without damaging the rims).
I saw something on YouTube about using cable ties so down to Screwfix for some industrial size ones (550mm x 9mm @ £13.50 per 100) and gave it a try.

It took about 5 minutes, no tyre levers were used, rim was “greased” with washing up liquid. It was good to do it on a box so that I could hold the far side of the rim and use my knee over the edge of the box to press the tyre on

No damage to the rim at all. It took far longer to get the bead to sit correctly on the rim so that it would inflate.
Doing it again I would use shorter slightly thinner cable ties

350TSS · 12-10-2018, 10:45 PM

Some good progress today but a few problems raised their head.
First I gel coated the patterns that I do not think need to have divided moulds, tool tray, headlamp shell and inner ring, front infill panels, belt covers, drive sprocket cover. These will probably need a second gel coat and will need overnight curing before this can be applied.

Next I fitted the rear tyre using the same method as for the front, I was expecting this to be harder than the front but it literally fell on when I applied the washing up liquid and tightened up the cable ties – no right knee to ease its passage and definitely no tyre levers. I managed also to get the bead to seat on the rim and the whole job took less than 20 minutes.

I thought I would mount the rear disc and check the alignment of the brake hanger and calliper mounting. With the disc requiring 10mm spacers the disc attachment socket cap screws supplied with the wheel were too short so I found some 8mm bolts the right length and bolted on the disc. Here are my problems:-

The bolt heads touch the brake hanger only just, but they do. If I use the correct shallow headed socket cap screws I get about 0.47mm clearance so that should be OK.
The second issue is that on the original brake anchor plate the calliper is mounted outside the plate which means that the disc clears the plate by no more than 2 mm, I have about an 8mm gap and so the disc will not run central to the calliper by about 5 or 6 mm. Arguably the pads should centralise and it will not matter that the pistons on one side are further exposed than on the other but it does not feel right and there is a danger when the pads are worn one piston will pop out or more likely the brake will not like working like this and will bind. This will require some creative thinking and or the purchase of a 6 hole disc with a 15mm offset.

Finally, and this has been hatching for some time, I thought about gaiters for the front forks. I have always thought it odd that your car will not pass MOT with a split steering rack gaiter but it is perfectly OK for a bike to have no protection on the fork tubes. The situation is worse with USD forks because the exposed stanchions are nearer to the muck and stones coming off the road surface.
I found on ebay a machine slide protector for about £9 which when cut in half should do both legs. Not sure yet if I can get it to work with the mudguard attachment clips but nothing ventured…..?

Darkness · 13-10-2018, 10:42 AM

I don’t suppose machining 1/8” off the disk seats on the hub is an option?

alan s4 · 13-10-2018, 11:54 AM

Interesting on the tyre fitting - what about balancing the wheels??

Darren69 · 13-10-2018, 12:06 PM

Gaiters (on road bikes) especially Ducati are the work of Satan!

Darren69 · 13-10-2018, 12:28 PM

Depending on your mudguard style, maybe something like these?

https://www.webbikeworld.com/ducati-...c-fork-guards/

utopia · 13-10-2018, 02:29 PM

Have you seen these ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mo...9iv:rk:11:pf:0

And yes, the cable tie method works like a dream, dunnit ?
Its just as good on the std, 3-spoke wheels too.
When you come to change tyres you'll be needing a bead breaker though.
I use and recommend the Abba one .. it works very well but isn't too bulky and is therefore easy to store.

Darren69 · 13-10-2018, 03:07 PM

No, but I have and please for so many reasons don't. Unless you plan on using the bike in all weathers or off road and in which case they will probably let rain water in and not let it out again.

Unless you have tried some and know different Geoff and that's a recommendation?

09-10-2018, 09:53 AM	#736
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	Was thinking that as mine are the same, they are actually bolts rather than threaded bar. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

09-10-2018, 09:32 PM	#738
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	Maybe? The challenge will be getting the half nuts off the stud as the recess in the frame is deep and fairly tight, plus you need the stud to end within the depth of the frame if you are to be able to put end caps over them. __________________ Original and Best since 1993

09-10-2018, 09:36 PM	#739
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,984	Why don't you ask Big Oz nicely, if he can weld a Ti full-nut on the end and make it into a proper bolt. How were you going to unlock the nuts when they are inside the frame tube, below the surface?. Difficult to hold the inner nut whilst undoing the outer one? Also sounds like a challenge to get the proper torque setting. __________________

13-10-2018, 10:42 AM	#745
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	I don’t suppose machining 1/8” off the disk seats on the hub is an option? __________________ Original and Best since 1993

13-10-2018, 12:06 PM	#747
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	Gaiters (on road bikes) especially Ducati are the work of Satan! __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

09-10-2018, 09:25 PM	#737
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Will lock together two thin nuts to thread the bar into the other side of the frame when that is thread bound/tight will unlock the two thin nuts and put a nyloc in place of the two thin nuts and another nyloc to lock the other side of the threaded lug in the frame. I think that will work

09-10-2018, 09:45 PM	#740
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Bugger - collectively I think you have got me there, I will not be able to unlock the inner lock nut inside the frame tube. Corrosion should not be a problem either with the aluminium crankcase or steel of the frame as titanium has excellent resistance. So a good dose of copperslip and a slot cut in the bar end to enable removal with a large flat bladed screwdriver I think should work. Thanks guys

11-10-2018, 10:18 AM	#742
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Welding a nut on is definitely the better solution for the engine bolts/studs. Today, I threaded the 10mm titanium stub for the rear brake reaction rod mounting, drilled and lightened the two 8mm associated bolts and also machined up the Mk2 titanium SA spindle. Had a couple of incidents with the titanium this is the first which I simply blew out, the second involved flames about 300mm above the lathe and required the extinguisher rather than the iphone for pretty snaps. The extinguisher was a powder one so had about an hour getting all the powder off the lathe. I also spent hours applying release agent to the CF patterns (5 coats on each except the tank and the seat where I discovered small blemishes that require just one more skim filling).

11-10-2018, 04:25 PM	#743
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Ordered my tyres a couple of days ago and they arrived this afternoon so I thought about a job I was not looking forward to – fitting them (without damaging the rims). I saw something on YouTube about using cable ties so down to Screwfix for some industrial size ones (550mm x 9mm @ £13.50 per 100) and gave it a try. It took about 5 minutes, no tyre levers were used, rim was “greased” with washing up liquid. It was good to do it on a box so that I could hold the far side of the rim and use my knee over the edge of the box to press the tyre on No damage to the rim at all. It took far longer to get the bead to sit correctly on the rim so that it would inflate. Doing it again I would use shorter slightly thinner cable ties

12-10-2018, 10:45 PM	#744
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Some good progress today but a few problems raised their head. First I gel coated the patterns that I do not think need to have divided moulds, tool tray, headlamp shell and inner ring, front infill panels, belt covers, drive sprocket cover. These will probably need a second gel coat and will need overnight curing before this can be applied. Next I fitted the rear tyre using the same method as for the front, I was expecting this to be harder than the front but it literally fell on when I applied the washing up liquid and tightened up the cable ties – no right knee to ease its passage and definitely no tyre levers. I managed also to get the bead to seat on the rim and the whole job took less than 20 minutes. I thought I would mount the rear disc and check the alignment of the brake hanger and calliper mounting. With the disc requiring 10mm spacers the disc attachment socket cap screws supplied with the wheel were too short so I found some 8mm bolts the right length and bolted on the disc. Here are my problems:- The bolt heads touch the brake hanger only just, but they do. If I use the correct shallow headed socket cap screws I get about 0.47mm clearance so that should be OK. The second issue is that on the original brake anchor plate the calliper is mounted outside the plate which means that the disc clears the plate by no more than 2 mm, I have about an 8mm gap and so the disc will not run central to the calliper by about 5 or 6 mm. Arguably the pads should centralise and it will not matter that the pistons on one side are further exposed than on the other but it does not feel right and there is a danger when the pads are worn one piston will pop out or more likely the brake will not like working like this and will bind. This will require some creative thinking and or the purchase of a 6 hole disc with a 15mm offset. Finally, and this has been hatching for some time, I thought about gaiters for the front forks. I have always thought it odd that your car will not pass MOT with a split steering rack gaiter but it is perfectly OK for a bike to have no protection on the fork tubes. The situation is worse with USD forks because the exposed stanchions are nearer to the muck and stones coming off the road surface. I found on ebay a machine slide protector for about £9 which when cut in half should do both legs. Not sure yet if I can get it to work with the mudguard attachment clips but nothing ventured…..?

13-10-2018, 11:54 AM	#746
alan s4 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Glasgow Bike: S4 challenge Posts: 447	Interesting on the tyre fitting - what about balancing the wheels??

13-10-2018, 12:28 PM	#748
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	Depending on your mudguard style, maybe something like these? https://www.webbikeworld.com/ducati-...c-fork-guards/ __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

13-10-2018, 02:29 PM	#749
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,562	Have you seen these ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mo...9iv:rk:11:pf:0 And yes, the cable tie method works like a dream, dunnit ? Its just as good on the std, 3-spoke wheels too. When you come to change tyres you'll be needing a bead breaker though. I use and recommend the Abba one .. it works very well but isn't too bulky and is therefore easy to store.

13-10-2018, 03:07 PM	#750
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	No, but I have and please for so many reasons don't. Unless you plan on using the bike in all weathers or off road and in which case they will probably let rain water in and not let it out again. Unless you have tried some and know different Geoff and that's a recommendation? __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage