Oberon Clutch slave leaking

[utopia]

Originally Posted by utopia

The only outstanding element in all this of which I am still a tad uncertain is the detail of the case/bearing/seal arrangement behind the clutch where the bleed hole in the shaft is.
If anyone has a pic of this I would be interested to confirm my reasoning that the bleed hole must exit between seal and bearing, thereby allowing the oil to flow back through the bearing and thence into the inner crankcase.

Nope, my reasoning is faulty there .... there is no seal on that bearing.
The oil must exit into the primary gear case.
The oil seal is in the outer case.
Please excuse my error .. I've never stripped my engine that far.

I'd still like to see that damn hole in the shaft though.

[Mr Gazza]

Page four!! What a popular thread and two threads for the price of one too!

So back to anti rotation pushrods.

I spoke to Craig today and he willingly engaged in measuring various pushrods and exploring parts lists... I just can't speak highly enough of what he and Luke do at Moto Rapido.

It turns out that Ducati list an upgrade kit for "earlier" Monsters, for £137, that includes a later slave, anti rotation insert and pinned pushrod. This kind of proves that we are going in the right direction with the pinned pushrod idea.

So we don't need the slave if we already have an aftermarket one with pin slots.

Craig can supply a pinned pushrod @335mm, which is supplied for 2001 onwards 900, S4 and S4R ect.
This is an upgraded part. Some where not originally fitted with pins. Folk just knock the pins out if their bikes didn't have them... Clearly the new slaves with anti-rotation inserts came a little later.

So for this to work my current rod needs to be 325mm and the spacer 10mm.

Luddite has already kindly provided that info, but I checked the length of my rod this evening anyway, it is 325mm. I didn't attempt to tap the spacer out as Luddite again kindly suggested. I am confident that it's 10mm.

So there you have it. The 2001 onwards pushrod for 900, S4 S4R @335 should do the trick. It comes with a pin already fitted (not sure about O-rings) for £32.62

I think it's safe to assume that the standard rod length of 325 was used up to (and including) 2000, So this conversion should work on all pre 2001 M900s'. and those after that were not originally pinned. Provided a later or aftermarket slotted slave is used.

I can't speak for the 750 and 600, it's down to checking your rod length, the slave position varies anyway.
For interest there is also a pinned rod listed @305mm and some others that Craig didn't have in stock so therefore couldn't measure.

Fill yer boots Darren. I think I will try one... Must change the fluid when I fit it though, and see if it stays clean any longer.

[Mr Gazza]

Craig did recount a tale of a pressure plate bearing that seized and destroyed an Oberon slave in pretty short order.. Not surprising.
I don't know if it was a pinned rod or not, but it's worth remembering that a pinned rod would cause some considerable carnage if the thrust bearing seized!! This should be a regular service item as noted earlier.

I noticed, when I took my rod out earlier, that the rod was seized into the top hat by corrosion and that the top hat was not a tight fit in the bearing... The bearing is less than a year old and the top hat was tight as far as I remember, when I fitted it.
probably not very good to be loose in the bearing? but at least it might save the slave if the bearing seized.... I probably need a new top hat?

I cleaned the inside of the top hat and also the end of the pushrod. This now pops in and out as it should (Noticed that there is a little O-ring in the top hat too) I reassembled with graphite grease. This needs to be free as , if a pinned rod is fitted it has to be pulled out from the slave side , as Dukedesmo advocates... There was no way I could pull it out that way Yesterday... No wonder!

[Luddite]

A very thorough bit of research, Mr Gazza, which could benefit quite a few members here. Yet another reason for joining UKMOC.

I hope you negotiated a commission arrangement with Craig as I imagine he might be selling quite a few pushrods over the next few weeks!

[Mr Gazza]

Thank you Luddite, for the kind words and also for your own research and info on this.

Not sure about a commission, I reckon I owe Craig and Luke a few drinks for the times they've helped me out in the past.... Hope they sell lots of pushrods.

[jerry]

My S4 is 2001 and has never had the anti rotation pin and the push rod has no hole for one

my m750 is 2000 it also has no pin hole

[Darren69]

My '02 S4 is the same. I think the Part fits '01 onwards (335mm) but was only upgraded with the pin some time later.

[Luddite]

Originally Posted by jerry

My S4 is 2001 and has never had the anti rotation pin and the push rod has no hole for one

my m750 is 2000 it also has no pin hole

Originally Posted by Darren69

My '02 S4 is the same. I think the Part fits '01 onwards (335mm) but was only upgraded with the pin some time later.

Although the design was first changed around 2000/1, the anti-rotation insert doesn't appear to have been introduced until the 696 in 2008/9.

[jerry]

where can i get the epdm seals for a Ducati star type slave i want quad ring seals for the piston ???

also anyone know where i can get the edpm seal & Oring for an Oberon one without paying £28 ?????

[Luddite]

Originally Posted by jerry

where can i get the epdm seals for a Ducati star type slave i want quad ring seals for the piston ???

also anyone know where i can get the edpm seal & Oring for an Oberon one without paying £28 ?????

Simply Bearings have a good selection. I'm sure there's something there to suit provided you know the exact dimensions.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Se...707/index.html

[jerry]

been looking at simply bearings site the Oberon one is a epdm O ring 0.5mm x30 but the shaft seal is the problem must be EPDM and either a V seal or a x seal

ducati one is best as x seal too must be EPDM to with stand brake fluid

[Mr Gazza]

I bit the bullet and ordered a pinned 335mm rod from Moto Rapido yesterday.
It arrived this morning, less than 24 hours later...

I had to smile when I saw the label; the Italian for "Clutch Control Rod" is "Asta Comando Frizione".... I'll have to be careful not to put it in the wrong bike!!...

Anyway I'll do a detailed post in "Mods & how to's" when it's all fitted and had a good test run.
I'm fitting a new thrust pin in the pressure plate bearing too, as the old one looks a bit sorry and no longer fits in the bearing properly. Might change the bearing again as well, as this one never did spin, what I'd call freely... The seals seem very draggy?

Also need to change the oil and see if it stays clean any longer.

Part No. is 11721122A for the pinned 335mm rod, it comes complete with pin and two O-rings fitted.

[Dukedesmo]

To follow up on this.

Now that I have the left side case off for investigation here's a couple of pics showing how the oil gets onto the pushrod and up the clutch shaft.






As you can see the pushrod (or pencil as it's brighter) is exposed when in the case and therefore oil gets onto it from above, there is also a small 'pool' underneath the machined entry hole, presumably to hold a reservoir of oil. The 'O' rings are between the oil hole outside to prevent oil from leaking out of the left side

You can also see the the end of the clutch shaft and bearing through there;

[jerry]

so what pushrod with PIN would fit S4 2001 with an OBERON slave ???? 325mm or 335mm????

[Mr Gazza]

The replacement rod for your bike is 11721122A Jerry.
That is 335mm and is supplied pinned. Your bike would not originally have had a pin, so if you were using the original slave you would need to remove the pin. However your Oberon slave should have the anti-rotation slots, so long as it is not a very early one, So you are good to go with a pinned rod.