M900 exhaust Flange - Page 4

Dukedesmo · 22-01-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Those finned flanges would suit my 750 project down to the ground. Can you remember where you got them Tim?

Yes, I've found the invoice. I got them from Ricambi-Weiss in Germany; https://www.ricambiweiss.com/en/ however I've just looked on their website and can't see them so maybe they don't do them any more?

Might be worth emailing them though? the description on the invoice is 'Krummerflansche CNC Ducati 600 750 900 Monster' cost me €25 back in 2010, unfortunately I sold them to someone on a forum after I changed my exhaust so don't have them any more.

Mr Gazza · 22-01-2021, 11:02 AM

Thank you Tim.

I might drop them a line, although I saw some Pantah ones somewhere for about 113Euros, so they might have gone up a tad?
Germany is difficult to deal with right now, my brother lost some car parts that he ordered in December... They never made it across the border!

slob · 22-01-2021, 11:38 AM

The finned version is just over double the cost of the plain one due to increased processing time on CNC although I haven't refined the model to make it as simple as possible yet.

Darren69 · 22-01-2021, 12:56 PM

The MH900e had the finned version: Part no 57510041A

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ghiera-di...EAAOSwI-BWHgh9

slob · 22-01-2021, 01:22 PM

Then you just need to track down a Japanese sport 1000 cup bellypan and slot it for a sidestand for the full effect

Mr Gazza · 22-01-2021, 01:28 PM

Good call Darren.

Rob, the MHR one only has 6 fins either side, which would be simpler. Could you get the nice petal shaped fins?
What sort of ball park are we looking at for these?

Mr Gazza · 22-01-2021, 01:42 PM

[QUOTE=slob;582815]Then you just need to track down a Japanese sport 1000 cup bellypan and slot it for a sidestand for the full effect[QUOTE]

What a ghastly bike! So you insulate the sump and filter and put a bigger oil cooler on??

Typically I'm always beaten to my ideas. I had thought about a little finned fairing for the starter motor to empathise with the bevel's forward sump protuberance, but that one goes too far!

slob · 22-01-2021, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Good call Darren.

Rob, the MHR one only has 6 fins either side, which would be simpler. Could you get the nice petal shaped fins?
What sort of ball park are we looking at for these?

Up to a point, more machining 'soft' radii = more time = more cost

I used a German website that spits out automatic CNC quotes, just to get a rough idea.
Finding a UK supplier would be key to making it more economical now I guess.
The copies of Luddite's ones where ~€44/pair + VAT, duty and p&p based on 5 pairs.
The finned ones were ~€90/pair + ...

I'd call MR and see if the cast OEM ones are available and how spare parts prices may have changed this year.

You've got me thinking and in between playing with a CAD model of a finned valve cover, I'm looking at home sand casting videos on youtube now...

Darkness · 22-01-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Up to a point, more machining 'soft' radii = more time = more cost

I used a German website that spits out automatic CNC quotes, just to get a rough idea.
Finding a UK supplier would be key to making it more economical now I guess.
The copies of Luddite's ones where ~€44/pair + VAT, duty and p&p based on 5 pairs.
The finned ones were ~€90/pair + ...

I'd call MR and see if the cast OEM ones are available and how spare parts prices may have changed this year.

You've got me thinking and in between playing with a CAD model of a finned valve cover, I'm looking at home sand casting videos on youtube now...

Low pressure sand-casting of magnesium alloys throws up some interesting papers.

Mr Gazza · 22-01-2021, 04:57 PM

Mmm? The prices for CNC are always going to be up there for one offs or small batches. The thing is it might even be a bit too "sharp" for the desired effect? The originals were cast or forged, so thinking that a square finned CNC ring could be hand fettled and then say blasted for a cast look, it does lead on to casting our own.
I have a stash of scrap ally accumulated as I was heading towards casting some bits a year or so ago. I did some sand casting at school and it's not hard at all, all you need to buy is the sand which is easily available and can be used many times, as can the metal if it doesn't go well the first time.
A box of two indexed halves is not rocket science and then all that's needed is a couple of wooden "carrots". Patterns can be anything, obviously I would go straight to MDF. One pattern will make multiple casts. It would only remain to find someone to machine the critical areas, most critical being a nice flat gasket face for the valve cover. The exhaust rings have only got to push on the collets, so not a precision part.

Thinking as I type, the easiest way to make a valve cover pattern would be to stick some MDF fins on an old one... A bit of filler here and there, an hours work.

slob · 22-01-2021, 05:09 PM

I was thinking 3D printing for the plugs.

I liked myfordboy’s stuff on youtube

lost PLA is a clever technique, a natural development from
lost wax I guess, but a bit over-complex with lots of extra kit required

but my absolute favourite was https://youtu.be/ZbNim7ix4Rc

crust · 23-01-2021, 10:53 AM

This has escalated nicely, rapidly becoming a favourite thread.

Rob, now I want bat shaped pancake things

great video, really entertaining

Mr Gazza · 23-01-2021, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crust

This has escalated nicely, rapidly becoming a favourite thread

I couldn't agree more Crust.. Some nice brain food here..

Rob you video links were a timely refresher as I'd overlooked the slight matter of a forge. I was still dwelling on how easy it was to melt some lead early last year, for some special little cast parts for a very expensive coldframe commission I built.

A forge doesn't look like rocket science though and I do happen to have a hoover that can blow. I can't work out the best thing for a crucible yet?

I can't wait to get cracking on this, but sadly it looks a long way off yet, what with everything and all that!!

slob · 23-01-2021, 12:11 PM

As previously mentioned as an indicative pricing and for interest’s sake, I don’t think services in Germany is feasible anymore once postage, VAT, duty and courier processing fees have been added
The first finned flange I posted a pic of (post #48 above) was quoted at €447 for 10 units

I simplified the design to the 6 fins you mentioned with a more ‘petal-like’ look, the price dropped to €357

I then smoothed all the edges that were feasible (without completely breaking the CAD model) and the price goes up again to €451

I also altered the flattened one after seeing your pics but didn't bother pricing, it'll be similar to the original 'Nasher design'

They quote €9 - €12 to 3D print a plastic 1-off, which could be used to test fit or as a plug for a mould, although I imagine casting four at a time would be the way to go… if my mate ever gets his 3D printer operational again, they’d be free though. I'd love to have a go at casting, when we can safely mingle and it's a little warmer outside.

On the plus side this is improving my CAD skills no end, playing with these and complex rocker cover designs,the Mag. finned ones look much taller than OEM, maybe to allow ridiculously lumpy cams? I haven't go one I'm ready to price for CNC yet, I just started with a square on photo of a gasket and superimposed the model over it.
I agree the easiest way to go, for casting, would be to start with an OEM one and stick MDF fins on/filler to make a plug, I'd also add 0.25-0.5mm to the gasket face so there's enough excess to mill off on the finished part.

Darkness · 23-01-2021, 12:27 PM

I’m sure I saw some of the finned covers in Stafford’s workshop some time ago.

22-01-2021, 11:02 AM	#47
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,983	Thank you Tim. I might drop them a line, although I saw some Pantah ones somewhere for about 113Euros, so they might have gone up a tad? Germany is difficult to deal with right now, my brother lost some car parts that he ordered in December... They never made it across the border! __________________

22-01-2021, 12:56 PM	#49
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	The MH900e had the finned version: Part no 57510041A https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ghiera-di...EAAOSwI-BWHgh9 __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

22-01-2021, 01:28 PM	#51
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,983	Good call Darren. Rob, the MHR one only has 6 fins either side, which would be simpler. Could you get the nice petal shaped fins? What sort of ball park are we looking at for these? __________________

22-01-2021, 01:42 PM	#52
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,983	[QUOTE=slob;582815]Then you just need to track down a Japanese sport 1000 cup bellypan and slot it for a sidestand for the full effect[QUOTE] What a ghastly bike! So you insulate the sump and filter and put a bigger oil cooler on?? Typically I'm always beaten to my ideas. I had thought about a little finned fairing for the starter motor to empathise with the bevel's forward sump protuberance, but that one goes too far! __________________

22-01-2021, 04:57 PM	#55
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,983	Mmm? The prices for CNC are always going to be up there for one offs or small batches. The thing is it might even be a bit too "sharp" for the desired effect? The originals were cast or forged, so thinking that a square finned CNC ring could be hand fettled and then say blasted for a cast look, it does lead on to casting our own. I have a stash of scrap ally accumulated as I was heading towards casting some bits a year or so ago. I did some sand casting at school and it's not hard at all, all you need to buy is the sand which is easily available and can be used many times, as can the metal if it doesn't go well the first time. A box of two indexed halves is not rocket science and then all that's needed is a couple of wooden "carrots". Patterns can be anything, obviously I would go straight to MDF. One pattern will make multiple casts. It would only remain to find someone to machine the critical areas, most critical being a nice flat gasket face for the valve cover. The exhaust rings have only got to push on the collets, so not a precision part. Thinking as I type, the easiest way to make a valve cover pattern would be to stick some MDF fins on an old one... A bit of filler here and there, an hours work. __________________

22-01-2021, 11:38 AM	#48
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	The finned version is just over double the cost of the plain one due to increased processing time on CNC although I haven't refined the model to make it as simple as possible yet.

22-01-2021, 01:22 PM	#50
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	Then you just need to track down a Japanese sport 1000 cup bellypan and slot it for a sidestand for the full effect

22-01-2021, 05:09 PM	#56
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	I was thinking 3D printing for the plugs. I liked myfordboy’s stuff on youtube lost PLA is a clever technique, a natural development from lost wax I guess, but a bit over-complex with lots of extra kit required but my absolute favourite was https://youtu.be/ZbNim7ix4Rc Last edited by slob; 22-01-2021 at 05:14 PM..

23-01-2021, 10:53 AM	#57
crust rattles when he walks Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: in the comfy chair,moved furniture around Bike: M900 Posts: 1,065	This has escalated nicely, rapidly becoming a favourite thread. Rob, now I want bat shaped pancake things great video, really entertaining

23-01-2021, 12:11 PM	#59
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	As previously mentioned as an indicative pricing and for interest’s sake, I don’t think services in Germany is feasible anymore once postage, VAT, duty and courier processing fees have been added The first finned flange I posted a pic of (post #48 above) was quoted at €447 for 10 units I simplified the design to the 6 fins you mentioned with a more ‘petal-like’ look, the price dropped to €357 I then smoothed all the edges that were feasible (without completely breaking the CAD model) and the price goes up again to €451 I also altered the flattened one after seeing your pics but didn't bother pricing, it'll be similar to the original 'Nasher design' They quote €9 - €12 to 3D print a plastic 1-off, which could be used to test fit or as a plug for a mould, although I imagine casting four at a time would be the way to go… if my mate ever gets his 3D printer operational again, they’d be free though. I'd love to have a go at casting, when we can safely mingle and it's a little warmer outside. On the plus side this is improving my CAD skills no end, playing with these and complex rocker cover designs,the Mag. finned ones look much taller than OEM, maybe to allow ridiculously lumpy cams? I haven't go one I'm ready to price for CNC yet, I just started with a square on photo of a gasket and superimposed the model over it. I agree the easiest way to go, for casting, would be to start with an OEM one and stick MDF fins on/filler to make a plug, I'd also add 0.25-0.5mm to the gasket face so there's enough excess to mill off on the finished part.

23-01-2021, 12:27 PM	#60
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	I’m sure I saw some of the finned covers in Stafford’s workshop some time ago. __________________ Original and Best since 1993