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03-08-2021, 01:00 PM | #541 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
"For (most?) models 2001 onwards (that i have had to deal with) it is reversed, meaning it is fitted the way you would expect it to be fitted. but, in 2001, they went to a different oil pump drive ratio and those pumps spin a lot faster and deliver a lot more pressure.prior to 2001 that seal is fitted the "wrong" way around. replace it as it is now being the most salient point." https://www.ducati.ms/threads/cranks...cement.475921/ |
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03-08-2021, 01:03 PM | #542 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Reading
Bike: M900
Posts: 600
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Quote:
Its a bit academic now since I have dismantled the part and set it all up for this optical detector. If I could find the right thermistor I could have a play and see if I could make it work. As used in the original it was a very simple device, immersed it was high resistance, out of the liquid when it was able to warm it became low resistance, allowing it to pass current and light the lamp. There was no ancillary circuitry.
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03-08-2021, 01:29 PM | #543 | |
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Quote:
At the risk of frustrating everybody, I'm afraid I still dont understand Brad's final words. "Replace it as it is now being the most salient point." What does he mean by "as it is now"? So which way is that? For pre 2001...with new viton seal replacement......spring towards centre (wrong) or spring towards outside (right)?
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03-08-2021, 01:34 PM | #544 |
No turn left unstoned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: leicester
Bike: M750
Posts: 4,555
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On my 750 (yr 2000 and with a wet clutch), the paint on the clutch cover had blistered and so I bought a used cover which I repainted and fitted, rather than enduring the extended downtime necessary to remove and repaint the existing cover (or doing it in situ).
I replaced the oil seal in the "new" cover with one supplied by JHP Ducati Coventry which was the new type (part no. 93040911A), fully encapsulated in a brown rubber of some sort ... probably viton I guess but I don't really know. Anyway, apart from the new seal being rubber-covered all over while the original had a plain steel case, the seals looked to be of identical type .. at least they did to my cursory glance. So I fitted the new seal the same way round as the old one, ie hollow side facing outward towards the circlip. Unfortunately the bike has only run a few miles to and from the mot centre since then so I can't really give a long term report but in the short term (8 or 10 miles) its been fine as far as I can tell, ie no strange noises and no oil warning light. I appreciate that after so few miles the new assembly is not yet fully proven but its been fine so far. I'll try and get out for a few more miles later today or tomorrow and report back. Also, I checked my original case just now and the old type, (bare steel cased) seal in that is fitted hollow side outward towards the circlip I'm twitching ever so slightly now in the light of this discussion in case the new type seal should go the other way round but like DD says, the physical appearance of the seal suggests that it operates in the same way as the original and therefore should be fitted the same way round. Still not absolutely conclusive but maybe that throws a little more light on the subject. I'll report back. And yes, I had to butcher the old seal out of the cover too. ps. the above was written prior to seeing Lud's post re. Brad the Bike Boy's comments. Last edited by utopia; 03-08-2021 at 01:36 PM.. |
03-08-2021, 01:42 PM | #545 |
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Utopia, thanks. Your post is very clear. I think Brad is advocating exactly what you have done. It would be so much easier and quicker to convey meaning if standing face to face and having a conversation!
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03-08-2021, 01:55 PM | #546 |
No turn left unstoned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: leicester
Bike: M750
Posts: 4,555
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Ha ... thanks.
I sometimes wonder whether folk find my carefully worded posts a little tiresome. My confidence is restored. And while on the subject of the clutch cover, don't be tempted (as I was briefly) to fit a gasket where there was formerly a threebond seal. The little green o-ring that seals the oilway from the pump will not be compressed adequately due to the extra thickness of the gasket. According to my calcs even a new seal will only get one or two thou compression and if you re-use the old one it wont even touch the sides. I'm sure you'd spot this yourself but it never hurts to give extra info, eh ? |
03-08-2021, 02:02 PM | #547 | |
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Quote:
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03-08-2021, 02:37 PM | #548 | |
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Location: Southampton
Bike: M1100evo
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Quote:
I agree, it's not very clear but, in the context of what he says elsewhere, I'd say he means replace it as it was originally installed, rather than as per the later, post-2001, instructions. |
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03-08-2021, 03:43 PM | #549 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2021
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Quote:
Actually Ive now found a video of someone fixing an almost identical thermistor sending unit with a 1k ohm NTC thermistor, using the old housing and just installing the new component. So cheaper and no wait for the part from China. Incidentally, at about 18 secs in , that is exactly what I found in my bust one
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Golf-My favourite game. While my wife plays I'm in the workshop. Last edited by PPuxley; 03-08-2021 at 03:48 PM.. |
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03-08-2021, 04:54 PM | #550 |
No turn left unstoned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: leicester
Bike: M750
Posts: 4,555
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.... back to the clutch cover gasket ....
Ah, for some reason I was assuming that your assembly had no gasket fitted when you stripped it. I guess there's no way of telling whether your gasket was fitted originally or whether a previous owner has added one where there was formerly none. You may find my measurements useful then (though remember this is for a wet-clutched yr 2000 M750 .. for what difference that may or may not make). The essential dimension is the depth of the counterbore which houses the o-ring on the crankcase side. In old money, this measured 0.042 ins on my engine. Thickness of the o-ring was 0.068 ins (new) or 0.062 ins (used). Thus std o-ring compression is 0.026 ins (new) or 0.020 ins (used). The new Exactfit gasket that I bought (before realising the problem) measures 0.024 ins (0.6mm). Thus a new o-ring would only get two thou compression and a re-used one would have four thou clearance (assuming zero compression of the gasket). I've also assumed zero thickness of an applied film of threebond after assembly, though in fact I doubt this is precisely correct. Now that I think of it, I can't remember how I determined that the mating face for the o-ring on the cover side was in the same plane as the gasket face .. but the above is based on that premise. And I ended up deducing that where a gasket was originally fitted, the counterbore on the crankcase side would be shallower. I would be interested to know what measurements you find on your engine. In the pursuit of minutiae, it may or may not be worth considering that the fitment of a gasket places the oil seal (and the bush) a fraction further out on the end of the crankshaft. |
03-08-2021, 04:59 PM | #551 |
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Utopia. I was just going to break out the blutac, put some in place of the o-ring do the casing up and measure what thichness that was and see how it compares to the o-ring
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03-08-2021, 05:12 PM | #552 |
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Thanks for the tip for putting that large O-ring into the clutch housing, (whoever it was) , using the parts of the clutch to pull it in square. I went so far with just the two parts then introduced some spacers to pull it further. Needs regular checking as you dont want to go too far.
I assume it should fit flush to the outside, which leaves about a 2mm lip of the seal protruding on the inside
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05-08-2021, 10:40 PM | #553 |
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Waiting for a replacement 6th gear before I can close the cases, I did a bit of hand painting on the new outer casings
Ive received an assortment of shims from Snells so did a bit of sorting these out and working out whats going where. And remeasured the crank float
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06-08-2021, 06:11 AM | #554 |
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That's one veteran Workmate
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06-08-2021, 09:15 AM | #555 |
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Join Date: Apr 2021
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