Slow Monster rebuild - Page 30

Darkness · 08-12-2017, 01:33 PM

Take a look at the rear brake fiche for the 851 Superbike.
That shows a top hat washer, a bush and a spacer.
Brake hanger not presently in stock at Stein Dinse though.

09-12-2017, 06:24 PM

Luckily I've got an original M900 so have a underslung rear caliper already but always fancied one of these purely for the hell of it

350TSS · 12-12-2017, 06:45 AM

Backward half day in the garage yesterday, I thought I would make the coil plate retaining brackets for welding to the cross-brace tube above the carb inlets. I spent about an hour or so looking for some suitable steel not wanting to use 3mm steel flat because I thought I would braze them on and 3mm plate is at the limit of the heat generated by my brazing kit. I settled on some 1mm thickness square section tube and spent another hour fabricating 3 brackets.
Why I thought this would work I do not know. If I had thought about it for more than a nano-second I would have realized that the chance of me attaching three separate brackets to a 18mm diameter tube and getting the brackets to all sit exactly level with the top surface of the tube was virtually zero.
Worse, when I had made the brackets I had another rush of blood to the head and rather than wait for the delivery of more gas to braze them in place I thought I would mig weld them to the tube. More haste less speed.
MiG welding dissimilar thickness materials (brackets 1mm, tube circa 2.5mm) particularly in a lap joint requires a level of skill that I do not possess. The result was really obvious to everyone except me. A bracket full of holes and a frame tube with unsightly gobbets of weld bead randomly projecting from the top surface.
Today I will have to spend an hour grinding and filing the residue off and a further hour or so making a proper one-piece bracket that has a reasonable chance of being level with the top surface of the tube. Another school day!

350TSS · 12-12-2017, 11:17 AM

Took a very deep breath and ordered my Dymag carbon fibre wheels this morning - delivery 6 weeks. I went with the narrower rear rim 5.50 as I was not absolutely certain that the 6.00 rim with a 180 tyre would clear the swinging arm.

Albie · 12-12-2017, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Took a very deep breath and ordered my Dymag carbon fibre wheels this morning - delivery 6 weeks. I went with the narrower rear rim 5.50 as I was not absolutely certain that the 6.00 rim with a 180 tyre would clear the swinging arm.

Oh my more lightness and bling..

I have sourced a clutch slave btw and bar ends a pair. Only trouble is that they need turning down to fit inside handlebar by 1mm..

utopia · 12-12-2017, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

...... I went with the narrower rear rim 5.50 as I was not absolutely certain that the 6.00 rim with a 180 tyre would clear the swinging arm.

I think that's the right choice anyway.
I had to increase the rear rim size to 5.50 on the Dymags on my 750 (that is the narrowest they do) but I would have preferred the std, narrower size.
Reckon it would have handled a tad sharper that way (though its fine with the wider rim .. its a minute point really).

Darren69 · 12-12-2017, 07:13 PM

Carbon Dymags, nice! I'm torn at the moment since I want lighter wheels but the carbon ones look to modern since my bike is kinda retro styled but with a modern edge but with enough carbon already, I feel that Alpina spokes were the best option but at £1600 quid and no lighter than the 5 spokes I already have it would be purely an aesthetic upgrade. Alpina didn't do their carbon rim spoke wheels that would fit mine at the time, maybe now they do now as that would be perfect for the bike (carbon rims and spokes with a billet cnc hub) dribble!

350TSS · 12-12-2017, 09:42 PM

Albie: drop the bar ends round and I will see what I can do.

Utopia: My M900 was running a 750SS rear wheel after the council left an unlit and unguarded hole in the road and the original M900 wheel was no longer round. I preferred the handling with the narrower section tyre and would have gone with a narrower Dymag if they did one

350TSS · 13-12-2017, 07:47 AM

Perforated and botch welded 1mm coil bracket now ground off, and new bracket made from 25mm x 3mm steel strip. I made a half decent job of welding it to the cross-brace tube and set about making the plate that the coils will sit on from 6mm aluminium plate.
Quite pleased with the result, I cut some slots in the plate to aid airflow over the coils and to lighten it. Pictures to follow when I have tidied it up.

I decided that it would be best to point the plug leads (and any errant sparks) at the rear cylinder head instead of at the carburetor float bowls. This still leaves the live coil connections below and behind the float bowls and in fairly close proximity so I will make a carbon fibre shield to act as a barrier between potential sparky bits and volatile liquids.
The mold will be taken from part of the inside of a Chinese take away box.

I found that in marking out the aluminium plate I used a sharpie pen as a cheap replacement for engineer’s blue and it worked really well, also, I discovered it is easily removed with a dose of WD40.

350TSS · 13-12-2017, 07:47 AM

Next job is to make the rear brake hanger plate from 10mm aluminium.
The S4 (and the M900) caliper mounting plates are cranked in towards the wheel about 12mm between the wheel spindle centre and the face where the caliper bolts to. Measuring the exact distance between the centre of the wheel spindle and the caliper bolt holes is therefore problematic (you are effectively measuring a hypotenuse between the centre of two holes one of which is 25mm diameter).

To get around this I think I will machine a 40mm long stub of 25mm aluminium round bar with a central 3mm thread and attach it to the 10mm plate by a 3mm set screw roughly in the position I will need to cut out the plate. This will act as a dummy wheel spindle.
The existing S4 hanger plate can then be pushed over the bar with the wheel spindle offset uppermost and clamped to the plate between the caliper mounting holes. I will then grind/machine a point on an 8mm bolt and thread it through the caliper mounting bolt holes on the S4 plate thereby making centre pop marks to drill my 10mm plate for attaching the caliper. I can then reasonably accurately measure the radius and prescribe an arc below the spindle intersectining with the centerline between the calipe bolt holes and the centre of the wheel spindle to locate the position of the reaction rod attachment point.

I have to cut a 52mm hole in the middle using a HSS holesaw (I have a 2 “ or 50.8mm one) and take the hole out to be a good fit with emery on a split arbor in the pillar drill.

All that is left then to do is drill the 5 or 6 (still undecided) holes in the hub and drill and tap corresponding holes in the plate. The attachment bolts will be countersunk set screws, I will have to wait to do this as I am awaiting delivery of metric countersink bits which are apparently 90 degrees and I only have imperial ones at 82.5 degrees.

utopia · 13-12-2017, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

I found that in marking out the aluminium plate I used a sharpie pen as a cheap replacement for engineer’s blue and it worked really well, also, I discovered it is easily removed with a dose of WD40.

That's what I do.
But I use meths to remove it .. which leaves the piece oil-free in case it needs re-marking. In fact I clean the piece with meths before marking too, as any grease or even the oxide film can prevent the marker from "taking" properly.
Actually, I discovered that you can get double-ended sharpies, with a thin point at the "extra" end which can sometimes be used to mark out directly rather than as a background for scribing.
And on ally where it shows up ok, I sometimes just mark out directly with a pencil.

On the big hole in the ally plate .. you could consider drilling/boring that on the lathe, holding the work in the 4-jaw and adjusting the jaws until your centre-dot aligns with a fixed centre in the tailstock.
Actually, I don't use a fixed centre but instead I use my scriber, made by grinding an old machine tap, held in a drill chuck .. because the point is finer/longer and the view is less obscured.
If you lift the work off the face of the chuck (or the jaws) with some packing pieces you should be able to bore right through.

350TSS · 13-12-2017, 12:14 PM

Unfortunately the brake hanger plate will be approx 240mm end to end and therefore way too big for my lathe

350TSS · 14-12-2017, 07:17 AM

350TSS · 14-12-2017, 07:19 AM

350TSS · 14-12-2017, 08:06 PM

Do not know why those photographs are sepia, it is not as if they are old pictures I only took them yesterday.
Some good some bad stuff today
I thought I would just check the fit of the tank over the coil bracket, all OK, but I noticed that the choke mechanism on the carbs fouled the coil, not by much but it would be way too much with the low-tension coil leads attached. A Mk 2 bracket was made today to get the requisite clearance. Overall a better job was made of the fabrication so not too bothered about the wasted time.
My job list had “make coil brackets” as a 1 hour job but it has actually taken me nearly 4 hours.
I will have a good tidy up tomorrow as I have put the S4 brake hanger bracket “somewhere safe and to hand” and I spent another good hour this afternoon not finding it.

08-12-2017, 01:33 PM	#436
Darkness . Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stockbridge Bike: M900 Posts: 1,984	Take a look at the rear brake fiche for the 851 Superbike. That shows a top hat washer, a bush and a spacer. Brake hanger not presently in stock at Stein Dinse though. __________________ Original and Best since 1993

12-12-2017, 07:13 PM	#442
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,095	Carbon Dymags, nice! I'm torn at the moment since I want lighter wheels but the carbon ones look to modern since my bike is kinda retro styled but with a modern edge but with enough carbon already, I feel that Alpina spokes were the best option but at £1600 quid and no lighter than the 5 spokes I already have it would be purely an aesthetic upgrade. Alpina didn't do their carbon rim spoke wheels that would fit mine at the time, maybe now they do now as that would be perfect for the bike (carbon rims and spokes with a billet cnc hub) dribble! __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

09-12-2017, 06:24 PM	#437
Nottsbiker Guest Posts: n/a	Luckily I've got an original M900 so have a underslung rear caliper already but always fancied one of these purely for the hell of it

12-12-2017, 06:45 AM	#438
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Backward half day in the garage yesterday, I thought I would make the coil plate retaining brackets for welding to the cross-brace tube above the carb inlets. I spent about an hour or so looking for some suitable steel not wanting to use 3mm steel flat because I thought I would braze them on and 3mm plate is at the limit of the heat generated by my brazing kit. I settled on some 1mm thickness square section tube and spent another hour fabricating 3 brackets. Why I thought this would work I do not know. If I had thought about it for more than a nano-second I would have realized that the chance of me attaching three separate brackets to a 18mm diameter tube and getting the brackets to all sit exactly level with the top surface of the tube was virtually zero. Worse, when I had made the brackets I had another rush of blood to the head and rather than wait for the delivery of more gas to braze them in place I thought I would mig weld them to the tube. More haste less speed. MiG welding dissimilar thickness materials (brackets 1mm, tube circa 2.5mm) particularly in a lap joint requires a level of skill that I do not possess. The result was really obvious to everyone except me. A bracket full of holes and a frame tube with unsightly gobbets of weld bead randomly projecting from the top surface. Today I will have to spend an hour grinding and filing the residue off and a further hour or so making a proper one-piece bracket that has a reasonable chance of being level with the top surface of the tube. Another school day!

12-12-2017, 11:17 AM	#439
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Took a very deep breath and ordered my Dymag carbon fibre wheels this morning - delivery 6 weeks. I went with the narrower rear rim 5.50 as I was not absolutely certain that the 6.00 rim with a 180 tyre would clear the swinging arm.

12-12-2017, 09:42 PM	#443
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Albie: drop the bar ends round and I will see what I can do. Utopia: My M900 was running a 750SS rear wheel after the council left an unlit and unguarded hole in the road and the original M900 wheel was no longer round. I preferred the handling with the narrower section tyre and would have gone with a narrower Dymag if they did one

13-12-2017, 07:47 AM	#444
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Perforated and botch welded 1mm coil bracket now ground off, and new bracket made from 25mm x 3mm steel strip. I made a half decent job of welding it to the cross-brace tube and set about making the plate that the coils will sit on from 6mm aluminium plate. Quite pleased with the result, I cut some slots in the plate to aid airflow over the coils and to lighten it. Pictures to follow when I have tidied it up. I decided that it would be best to point the plug leads (and any errant sparks) at the rear cylinder head instead of at the carburetor float bowls. This still leaves the live coil connections below and behind the float bowls and in fairly close proximity so I will make a carbon fibre shield to act as a barrier between potential sparky bits and volatile liquids. The mold will be taken from part of the inside of a Chinese take away box. I found that in marking out the aluminium plate I used a sharpie pen as a cheap replacement for engineer’s blue and it worked really well, also, I discovered it is easily removed with a dose of WD40.

13-12-2017, 07:47 AM	#445
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Next job is to make the rear brake hanger plate from 10mm aluminium. The S4 (and the M900) caliper mounting plates are cranked in towards the wheel about 12mm between the wheel spindle centre and the face where the caliper bolts to. Measuring the exact distance between the centre of the wheel spindle and the caliper bolt holes is therefore problematic (you are effectively measuring a hypotenuse between the centre of two holes one of which is 25mm diameter). To get around this I think I will machine a 40mm long stub of 25mm aluminium round bar with a central 3mm thread and attach it to the 10mm plate by a 3mm set screw roughly in the position I will need to cut out the plate. This will act as a dummy wheel spindle. The existing S4 hanger plate can then be pushed over the bar with the wheel spindle offset uppermost and clamped to the plate between the caliper mounting holes. I will then grind/machine a point on an 8mm bolt and thread it through the caliper mounting bolt holes on the S4 plate thereby making centre pop marks to drill my 10mm plate for attaching the caliper. I can then reasonably accurately measure the radius and prescribe an arc below the spindle intersectining with the centerline between the calipe bolt holes and the centre of the wheel spindle to locate the position of the reaction rod attachment point. I have to cut a 52mm hole in the middle using a HSS holesaw (I have a 2 “ or 50.8mm one) and take the hole out to be a good fit with emery on a split arbor in the pillar drill. All that is left then to do is drill the 5 or 6 (still undecided) holes in the hub and drill and tap corresponding holes in the plate. The attachment bolts will be countersunk set screws, I will have to wait to do this as I am awaiting delivery of metric countersink bits which are apparently 90 degrees and I only have imperial ones at 82.5 degrees.

13-12-2017, 12:14 PM	#447
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Unfortunately the brake hanger plate will be approx 240mm end to end and therefore way too big for my lathe

14-12-2017, 07:17 AM	#448
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422

14-12-2017, 07:19 AM	#449
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422

14-12-2017, 08:06 PM	#450
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Do not know why those photographs are sepia, it is not as if they are old pictures I only took them yesterday. Some good some bad stuff today I thought I would just check the fit of the tank over the coil bracket, all OK, but I noticed that the choke mechanism on the carbs fouled the coil, not by much but it would be way too much with the low-tension coil leads attached. A Mk 2 bracket was made today to get the requisite clearance. Overall a better job was made of the fabrication so not too bothered about the wasted time. My job list had “make coil brackets” as a 1 hour job but it has actually taken me nearly 4 hours. I will have a good tidy up tomorrow as I have put the S4 brake hanger bracket “somewhere safe and to hand” and I spent another good hour this afternoon not finding it.