I thought I would restore this just for the hell of it

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

My apologies to our Monster owners for hijacking the thread space on here, I did look at some other forums, but they dont seem to have the knowledge base that this forum has, and as you all know , the UKMOC has a comraderie that is second to none.

No need to apologise.
We all like a Dookbob build thread.
It is a classic Ducati after all.
And its not the only (well received), non-monster build thread on the forum.
Tbh, I was teetering on the brink of posting some details of my Honda Dominator street scrambler conversion.
And that's not even Italian ..... though it is the essential winter companion to monster ownership.
And oddly, the frame plate says "made in Italy", which made me smile.
And I've fitted an Italian GPR exhaust, complete with tricolore badge.
And I've fitted monster indicators.
Very nearly fitted a monster curvy teatray too.
This Italian thing is catching ... I even drink more coffee these days.
But I digress.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

My apologies to our Monster owners for hijacking the thread space on here, I did look at some other forums, but they dont seem to have the knowledge base that this forum has, and as you all know , the UKMOC has a comraderie that is second to none.

No apology needed: this isn't the Monster riders club, nor the Monster information Exchange. It's the Monster Owners' Club, so as a forum to exchange news and views between past and present Monster owners. Rebuilding historic Ducatis including singles and superbikes as well as the odd Guzzi is clearly of interest. The number of replies and reads of such threads proves it.

[Dukedesmo]

No apologies indeed, I for one am very interested as a former Scrambler owner, I always thought the Monster was Scrambleresque in ways anyway.

As for the decompressor I don't think 250s were ever fitted with it, 450s definitely and I think also the 350.

I wish I'd kept mine, I gave it away after the big end went as I was moving house and couldn't be bothered to fix it...

[emzedder]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

I will keep in mind the fact that you have some contacts in Europe for Spanish parts if I need to obtain any. My kick start seemed ok when I used it a couple of times before stripping the bike, but thanks for the heads up on it,s possible weakness under kickback conditions. It doesn,t have a decompressor fitted currently, so I must look into fitting one if it,s at all possible when I come to rebuild the engine. Would you know wether or not it is possible to clean out the centrifugal sludge trap in the crank without removing the crank from it,s cases. I have had the plug out to take a look, and it definitely needs doing one way or another. If I have to renew the big end needle roller then it will be out anyway of course, but it was just a thought.
My apologies to our Monster owners for hijacking the thread space on here, I did look at some other forums, but they dont seem to have the knowledge base that this forum has, and as you all know , the UKMOC has a comraderie that is second to none.

Unfortunately sludge is a unit strip as far as I am aware.
The decompressor is a plunger in the rocker cover, you often see the casting blank. They are about on eBay occasionally. Classic Ducati do the lever units.
The singles give a unique ride. You probably know that bevel meshing is a work of art and crank end float critical to these.

[Albie]

I for sure enjoy any classic rebuild on here Ducati or not. Having 2 500 singles and a 400 too of Japanese variety I love the riding of them. On the 500 they have a decompressor and the 400 technically it does too but is controlled by a cable on the kickstart which lift the valve at the correct time. I do remember my brother fitted some kind of sparkplug fitting decompressor on his 1974 Suzuki TS250M scrambler back in the day. Not sure it needed it really but guess it may have decent compression.

[Flip]

Firstly, I am loving this thread already and know it will only get better!!

Originally Posted by emzedder

Unfortunately sludge is a unit strip as far as I am aware.
The decompressor is a plunger in the rocker cover, you often see the casting blank. They are about on eBay occasionally. Classic Ducati do the lever units.
The singles give a unique ride. You probably know that bevel meshing is a work of art and crank end float critical to these.

Yes as far as I know as well it needs to be a complete strip for the sludge trap.

Never heard of a decompressor on a 250 or of the damage to the kickstart mech as a result of kickback but then again mine doesn't have one and usually starts within a few feet of paddling it along while sitting on it (although I prefer to get a push start).

Surely if you get it on the compression stroke it's not too much of a problem is it?

I can fire mine up like that while it's up on a stand with a flick of the rear wheel.

Anyway, back to crank end float- I'm sure it'll be lots of fun!!! This is quite a good read if you've not already seen it:
http://www.motoscrubs.com/Duc_Technical.htm

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

It will look smashing in Red though.

Yes indeed it will (but I may be a little biased on that one) as well as upsetting the purists out there as they never had red frames!!

Originally Posted by Dookbob

My forks are 35mm and apart from the mudguard brackets being cracked at the welds they were in a surprisingly good condition. These seal holders were never made to take two seals ( or one seal and a spacer even) . There is only room in the rebate for one 7.5mm deep seal followed by the circlip. All the new seals stocked by the spares people are of 47mm outside diameter, mine are 45mm which is what makes me think that these are Spanish forks.

There was no steering damper on the bike when I got it, but once I get a good look at one. Or can get an accurate diagram of one, I will make one, the friction plates are still available.

Yes maybe you are right and your forks are either another make or just for the Spanish build bikes. I will ask one of my racing buddies whose been building and racing singles for years and have stockpiles of parts 'just in case'.

These are the seals fitted to mine:



This little lot came out of the forks when Maxton reworked them with their GP20 cartridge conversion:


And the springs, with an almost 'progressive' coil arrangement and 450mm long:


As for a steering damper, again mine doesn't have one and I've never felt the need for it while racing (and I have my forks pulled through the yokes quite a lot) but those that do run with them are of the usual along the frame type which obviously are not of the original design as the stem nut is used to locate the fairing brace on race bikes.

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

I have a Clymer manual that covers those, it,s just that my forks are not covered by it.

I have these manuals if ever there is anything you want me to check through- in typically Italian style the vary a bit and the translation is a bit dodgy in places along with their idea of torque settings (they quote things like 'tighten moderately'). Am happy to scan and email as and when if you wish though.

Originally Posted by Dookbob

I wonder is there anything included in the chassis number that might indicate where it was built. the number starts off with DM250S, I assumed that the S refers to the fact that it is a scrambler, but that is only a guess on my part.

Not likely, they seem to be all over the place without any real designating letters although I would think the S was intended to identify the Scrambler but in reality all the frames are similar apart from their age (and being either Narrow or Wide case of course).

Here is a database of such:

http://bevelheaven.com/data-single.htm

You could always give Pietro a ring and see if he can shed any more light- his shop is a few miles up the road from me and is a kind of eccentric mix of living room (complete with sideboards used for parts display and a working Grandfather clock), workshop and
some of the most beautiful Italian two wheelers I have never heard of along with many I have:

http://www.dimarino.co.uk/

[Mr Gazza]

Have a good look at the float bowl cover on the Amal carb and see if there is a clue there as to it's Spanish origins.

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Have a good look at the float bowl cover on the Amal carb and see if there is a clue there as to it's Spanish origins.

I think the only Spanish made ones were these for the 24 Horas:
http://amalcarb.co.uk/carburettor-fo...240-horas.html

[Flip]

Okay, I think we may have got somewhere on 'those' forks.....

I won't cue the drum roll yet but reading through some saved links from researching Ducati singles when I was looking I found this article mentioning a Spanish manufacturer called Telesco (they don't mention whether they are Value or Finest though )

Enjoy the read and hopefully some more enlightenment.

Part one here:
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ducati05071300.html

Part two:
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ducati05072700.html

So then a quick eBay search and these turn up which look remarkably like those on your bike:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Tel...AAAOSwXeJYCQKg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-FRO...0AAOSwxCxT2W1x

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-FRO...8AAOxyc2pTZRYr

Fair play to you Flip, you came up with the goods on this one. My forks and yokes are definitely Telesco, which explains the 45mm o.d. On the fork seals. I have,nt looked at the carb yet, but it is an Amal which I thought was just a later mod, but once I have had a good look it might be one of the 24 Horas Spanish made ones. Thanks again guys, you are really speeding up my learning curve, and I am liking the bike more, now that it is turning out to be so interesting.

[emzedder]

Originally Posted by Flip

I think the only Spanish made ones were these for the 24 Horas:
http://amalcarb.co.uk/carburettor-fo...240-horas.html

My 24 Horas has a Spanish made Amal monobloc. the bodies warp especially easily if the nuts are nipped up unevenly !

[emzedder]

Originally Posted by Flip

Firstly, I am loving this thread already and know it will only get better!!



Yes as far as I know as well it needs to be a complete strip for the sludge trap.

Never heard of a decompressor on a 250 or of the damage to the kickstart mech as a result of kickback but then again mine doesn't have one and usually starts within a few feet of paddling it along while sitting on it (although I prefer to get a push start).

Surely if you get it on the compression stroke it's not too much of a problem is it?

I can fire mine up like that while it's up on a stand with a flick of the rear wheel.

Anyway, back to crank end float- I'm sure it'll be lots of fun!!! This is quite a good read if you've not already seen it:
http://www.motoscrubs.com/Duc_Technical.htm

This is example of a small kickstart gear tooth chip that gradually worsens and then goes pop ....

[Flip]

Originally Posted by emzedder

This is example of a small kickstart gear tooth chip that gradually worsens and then goes pop ....

OUCH!
Point taken- my only experience of these bikes is of my little racer and that had all the kick start and charging parts removed back in it's distant past- It has been a race bike most (if not all) of it's life.

I know this relates directly to the 24 Horas bikes and therefore Narrowcase frame and motor it is very much relevant to the Spanish made Mototrans and if perhaps one of the best photo restorations I have seen on a Bevel drive single- Google Translate will be your friend

http://ducati25024horas.blogspot.co.uk/

The article on the motor is well worth looking at to see what goes on in there:

http://ducati25024horas.blogspot.co....del-motor.html