Slow Monster rebuild

[350TSS]

The joy of this forum is that you can get access to knowledge and assistance with ideas, thanks guys.
I do not know whether the MUV2 control box performance will be hindered by magnetic fields or RF interference, the instruction manual does not say. All it says is “have a 300mm gap from the coils”. If it is magnetic fields then I am flummoxed and as Mr. Gazza intimates there may be no way of protecting against them. Although I will research how naval minesweepers deal with magnetic mines - degaussing I think it is called – probably over thinking this but no harm in trying to find out.
Mr. Gazza, I think you are absolutely right the protection should be located around the vulnerable equipment not the source of the interference. This would be very problematic in the location I have selected for the unit as there are /will be around 20 wires connecting into and out of the box. It will be very congested there and the connections to the box are via small single grub screws into brass blocks so there is always the possibility of these becoming detached and enabling a short circuit/fire.
Also, the box has LED indicator lights which a) enable set up and b) indicate problems or circuits at risk. The control unit has to be mounted on a stout plate with a significant earth wire - 6mm square minimum. I will already have to remove the tank to see these LEDs. I could possibly cut up a mobile phone pouch (the ones designed to protect against unauthorized access to the phone) with a front opening Velcro fastening to enable viewing of the LEDs.
If the issue is RF interference I really like the idea of incorporating some mesh within the mold itself.
I think I will e mail the manufacturer of the MUV2 unit to ascertain whether it is RFI or magnetic fields that are problematic

[Mr Gazza]

Ah! Not such an easy nut to crack then?
The large metal mounting plate seems to imply some sort of heat sink, and so would in turn imply a disadvantage to enclosing the device.
You have the right idea to contact the supplier for the definitive answer to what kind of interference we are up against. They could well have a solution to the shielding regime too.

For what it's worth, I think it is less likely for the problem to come from RFI, as I think most of the sensors in question will work on electrical resistance and be fairly bombproof. Unless of course there is a microprocessor in there, in which case it could be vulnerable.

Thinking about magnetic fields; you have a Hall effect sensor inputting there, which works on a fluctuating weak magnetic field. If it is the case that coils also generate fields (which could pulse alternately?), then these fields will all have a relationship with engine RPM and therein would lay an interference problem.

All conjecture of course! It will be interesting to hear what the manufacturer has to say.

Out of interest, has anyone ever held a compass near a running coil. Or moved a compass around a switched on coil?

[350TSS]

Typically, I go to bed between 10.00 and 11.00 pm and recently my rheumatoid arthritis has been waking me around 3.00 am (every bloody morning). I cannot go back to sleep and I have to get up to move and ease the stiffness and throbbing in my joints. Ibuprofen helps but concentrating on something I enjoy pushes the discomfort to the back of my consciousness. Hence the tedious and overlong (?) posts on here.
This morning I thought more about the situation I am in re the positioning of the electrics, worrying if the MUV2 electronic control box and /or the ignitech ignition box will be the victim of magnetic or electronic interference from the coils. My real concern was that the effects would be partial (at particular rev ranges) or intermittent. Reading on the internet about EMI/RFI and protecting for it there does not seem to be a “silver bullet” solution. In certain circumstances, if you screen cables and you do not do it correctly the screen itself can act as an antenna and make the problem worse.
The worst-case scenario would be putting it all together having stripped everything down and rebuilt it and it would not start or ran roughly. Is it the carbs, the ignition timing, the cam belt timing, the valve clearances, my wiring harness? – any one of a thousand things. Best not to go there.
My problem/source of worry is self-generated - a function of positioning of the equipment - so change the design and reposition the equipment. The sensitive stuff is the MUV2 and potentially the Ignitech box.
From the internet I glean that the potential sources of EMI/RFI are coils and plug leads, the rectifier/ regulator, starter motor and starter solenoid. The MUV2 manual only requires 300mm separation from the coils, no mention of any other equipment.
I need to move the coils from their current location but to where?
Options are:
1) To the rear of the battery tray (they will fit here but is underneath the carburetor float bowls so a potential fire hazard and not quite 300mm away from MUV2 unit)
2) To the under-seat tray (easiest option but too far away so long HT leads required and long power/trigger cables to coil)
3) Cut out a location on the underside of the tank above and behind the carburetors and attach to a plate bonded to the underside of the tank
(a lot of work to do this given current state of the mold and attaching coils to the tank is hardly ideal also it is likely to be a location that is hot being above and just in front of the vertical cylinder. Also concerns re the length of lead required to ensure that the tank can be fitted and removed ie lengths of trailing wire)
4) Cut out a location on the underside of the tank above and behind the carburetors and make a bracket(s) brazed to the frame and attach the coils to these, avoids the maintenance and lead length issues but it will still be hot here (no hotter than the original Monster location though).
Before I started writing this Option 1 was favoured but option 4 is probably the right answer, unfortunately it involves the most additional work.
The coil enclosure originally envisaged will now house the Ignitech box so it can be reduced significantly in size allowing better airflow to the rear cylinder so a bit more work as well but a better all-round solution.
My job list to conclusion (maintained on an excel spread sheet) is now 251 distinct jobs over an hour long totaling 449 hours.

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by 350TSS

I need to move the coils from their current location but to where?

Do you have an airbox fitted? if so there aren't many options.

Mine has no airbox and so I fitted the coils at the front of the undertank void in the airflow for better cooling.

[350TSS]

No air box will be fitted I will be using foam canister filters about 100mm diameter by about 110mm deep.
I note you have a cross brace behind the steering head - unfortunately all of that space is within 150mm of where I propose to fit the MUV2 control unit (directly under the ignition switch/lock)

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by 350TSS

I note you have a cross brace behind the steering head - unfortunately all of that space is within 150mm of where I propose to fit the MUV2 control unit (directly under the ignition switch/lock)

I added cross-bracing in the front as to fit the split-single carbs I had to move the rear cross-brace and so lost a bit of it's integrity so wanted to compensate for this, also to add some strength.

The design of the cross-bracing is essentially as per the superbikes (888/916) which are otherwise similar to the Monster and as I knew I could no longer use the airbox I didn't need to leave the space empty.

I then fitted a carbon fibre sheet to the top of the coils to house the other electrics; relays, starter solenoid, headlight ballast etc. and the ignitech can be seen in the picture to the front right of the battery. It means there's a lot of wiring under there but everything is easily accessible but completely hidden when the tank is in place.

[350TSS]

Productive half day today, machined up the Mark 1 brake hanger hub with its bronze bush liner and surprise, surprise the bronze bush fits the alloy hub and the bearings fit the bronze bush, all nice and snugly. Pleased with that as only my second attempt at boring tightish tolerance holes on a lathe ever.
I will probably leave it in this condition, i.e. not drilling and countersinking the 5 or 6 holes (undecided) for attachment of the 10mm caliper mounting plate until I have had a go at the Mk 2 version, if that comes out OK then I will use the Mk 2 and make the hanger plate to fit the Mk2 hub (it will have a slightly larger PCD of the attachment holes). The Mk2 hub will be tomorrow’s job.
Also I worked out where to put my coils, not the most elegant positioning but they: a) are 350mm from the electronic control unit;
b) are out of the direct airflow to the rear head;
c) are not requiring modification of the tank base;
d) will have a cooling airflow around them;
e) will be largely hidden from view by my side cooling pods; and
f) the leads to the plugs will be short and approximately the same length.
I will need to braze a bracket to the frame to take 2 x 15mm a 15mm male rubber isolation mounts.
Finally, having decided on the coil location, I modified the mold originally intended to take the coils to accept the Ignitech box, it will need filling and rubbing down but it is now 18mm less intrusive into the air stream travelling towards the rear cylinder head.

[350TSS]

You are of the same school of thought re electrics - as far as possible close together and not in plain view - neat

[350TSS]

I machined the Mk 2 brake hanger hub today and managed to overcut the 37mm (to 37.02 instead of 36.97) bore for the bearings so the bearings would definitely not be an interference fit. The solution was to take the hole in the hub out to 39.97mm and use the bronze bush from the Mk1 which worked out fine. I think it is a better solution as the bronze bush has an internal shoulder that will prevent the bearing walking crossways, although I will need to make a steel spacer to go between the two inner races so that the bearings are not side loaded when the wheel is tightened up. Retaining that spacer in alignment with the two bearings when the spindle is removed I have not yet worked out how to do (initial thoughts are a sheet of nylon 6mm thick fitting closely around the outside of the spacer and fitting inside the bronze bush with a loose fit so maintaining the alignment but being friction free on the rotation of the hub around the spindle). Getting all the various other bits in line when replacing the rear wheel can be a bit tricky.

I also had a bit of a ponder on my coil bracket(s). I originally intended to mount them one each side just beneath the bracket that holds originally the battery and airbox but I forgot about the vacuum petrol pump which resides on the RH side. There is just not quite enough room to put both coils on the LH side. Above the cross brace in front of the rear cylinder head seems a possibility but I may have to scallop the tank base to get clearance. Not exactly the ideal location as it will be hot under there and there will be some masking of cooling air to the vertical cylinder head. Making the requisite space can be done in two possible ways, 1) make a cut out in the existing mold which will not be easy at all or 2) make the male mold of the tank base as is and add a bit so that the resulting female has the required space envelope. Option 2 definitely preferred.

I will need to weld or braze a bracket to the cross brace and my thinking is for a 6mm aluminium plate resting on the cross brace tube and secured by the brackets with 2 x 15mm x 15mm male rubber isolation mounts per coil mounted above the plate. The coils being mounted fore and aft onto the isolation mounts with the plug leads exiting forward. My real concern with this location is the heat affecting the longevity of the coils but the original Monster coil positioning is not that far away and they would be in front of the rear cylinder head rather than above it. I do not really have a lot of other options so Hobson’s choice will have to do.

Is the brake bracket Corse / M900S style?

If so I'd be interested in purchasing something like that from you.

Ben

[350TSS]

No idea what a M900s or Corse one looks like I am afraid I think they hang below the axle and the reaction rod attaches to somewhere adjacent to the caliper, I think they also have a bracket on the crankcase to attach to the other end of the reaction rod.
Mine will be a plate that extends either side of the axle with the caliper above and the reaction rod below.
To be honest I am not in the manufacturing business apart from my own bike, and it would not be economic for me to be with the amount of F*** ups I make.

Originally Posted by 350TSS

No idea what a M900s or Corse one looks like I am afraid I think they hang below the axle and the reaction rod attaches to somewhere adjacent to the caliper, I think they also have a bracket on the crankcase to attach to the other end of the reaction rod.
Mine will be a plate that extends either side of the axle with the caliper above and the reaction rod below.
To be honest I am not in the manufacturing business apart from my own bike, and it would not be economic for me to be with the amount of F*** ups I make.

No worries was just chucking the option out there for you

[Darren69]

When I inquired about one of the floating rear calipers Luigi Moto had for sale for a 749/999 they said they could make me one for the monster.

[Mr Gazza]

Moto Rapido made a note of all the parts needed to do a conversion to a floating rear caliper set up... So it's not a kit as such, but as good as.
It's basically the 2000 M900Sie parts, so you can cherry pick the parts and buy your own rose joints and make your own rod and bracket if you have the means.

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Moto Rapido made a note of all the parts needed to do a conversion to a floating rear caliper set up... So it's not a kit as such, but as good as.
It's basically the 2000 M900Sie parts, so you can cherry pick the parts and buy your own rose joints and make your own rod and bracket if you have the means.

Wonder what the cost is as they are silly money when they appear on ebay etc