Slow Monster rebuild - Page 23

350TSS · 05-10-2017, 10:11 AM

I was quite pleased with the outcome and then I fitted it and it worked, secure enough to hold the regulator without excessive up and down play and without causing any tightening of the steering.
BUT………………
It projected down towards the wheel more than I thought, so I checked on my S4 which is hanging on ratchet straps with its forks fully extended. I measured the exposed chrome part of the fork slider and then I measured the gap between the top of the mudguard to the lowest point on the bottom yoke, then I subtracted the depth of the underslung regulator. There would be a 10mm clash on full depression of the front forks. Bugger, bum, guts as my late father would say.
At this point you question your sanity. You have what you think is a good idea and you invest quite a bit of effort to make it work but it doesn’t. Other locations for the regulator (either one) were considered but all seemed sub optimal (either hidden and protected from the air flow (behind or under the battery) or too much on display (immediately outside the alternator case) or requiring too much loom to get to (in or under the seat hump).
So, Hobson’s choice was to make a plate for the MOSFET regulator and sort out the difficult aesthetic of it projecting forward from the bottom yoke by 60mm at a later date. This I think is achievable given that I have not made the head lamp brackets yet so the fore and aft position of the head lamp is not yet fixed and the mold for the fly screen is barely started.
I still have to untangle the clash between the instrument nacelle and the head lamp and forward movement of the head lamp will obviously help in this respect, although I have already filed a flat on the headlamp shell mold to accommodate the CCTV monitor.

350TSS · 05-10-2017, 10:13 AM

350TSS · 05-10-2017, 10:30 PM

Productive day today, made a plate for the MOSFET regulator and in the interests of allowing some cool air to the fins behind the leading fin, through drilled it. Also drilled and countersunk the mounting plate to increase the surface area of the plate and to lighten it. Masked up the regulator and gave it about 4 coats of PJI.

350TSS · 05-10-2017, 11:04 PM

I also spent a long time working out how to make the mold for the fly screen. The areas of concern are:
1. Disguising the projecting regulator beneath the bottom yoke
2. Ensuring the aesthetics are right with sufficient rake on the screen above the headlamp see also 5 below
3. Fitting LED indicators and running lights, both are quite ugly as individual components so I need to put them somewhere they can fulfil their function and be seen by oncoming traffic, and, in the case of the indicators have sufficient separation, but are unobtrusive to a static observer of the bike
4. Interface with and space for clip ons and the brake and clutch master cylinder and any potential clash with the headlamp shell / headlamp shell bracketry
5. Interface with the instrument nacelle whether the nacelle acts as a support for the screen and whether there is effectively an interior dash board that may permit the mounting of a voltmeter
6. Mounting points for the fly screen (and methods of attachment - secure screws or Dzuz fasteners) and access to the head lamp side bolts to adjust beam height/ and or change bulbs
7. Whether the face of the headlamp lens needs to move forwards or down or both.
Interestingly re 1 above I checked my S4 and the distance between the bottom yoke and the plastic bit between the twin horns is about 60mm so my 70mm need not look too bad.
To get the “right” rake the instrument nacelle will have to be remade with the CCTV monitor set just below and in front of the bottom of the top yoke inclined at 50 degrees to the horizontal with the speedo projecting over the top of the monitor and inclined at about 80 degrees to the horizontal.
I hope to have the rough shape in foam and ply by the end of tomorrow

Jez900ie · 06-10-2017, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

I also spent a long time working out how to make the mold for the fly screen. The areas of concern are:
1. Disguising the projecting regulator beneath the bottom yoke
2. Ensuring the aesthetics are right with sufficient rake on the screen above the headlamp see also 5 below
3. Fitting LED indicators and running lights, both are quite ugly as individual components so I need to put them somewhere they can fulfil their function and be seen by oncoming traffic, and, in the case of the indicators have sufficient separation, but are unobtrusive to a static observer of the bike
4. Interface with and space for clip ons and the brake and clutch master cylinder and any potential clash with the headlamp shell / headlamp shell bracketry
5. Interface with the instrument nacelle whether the nacelle acts as a support for the screen and whether there is effectively an interior dash board that may permit the mounting of a voltmeter
6. Mounting points for the fly screen (and methods of attachment - secure screws or Dzuz fasteners) and access to the head lamp side bolts to adjust beam height/ and or change bulbs
7. Whether the face of the headlamp lens needs to move forwards or down or both.
Interestingly re 1 above I checked my S4 and the distance between the bottom yoke and the plastic bit between the twin horns is about 60mm so my 70mm need not look too bad.
To get the “right” rake the instrument nacelle will have to be remade with the CCTV monitor set just below and in front of the bottom of the top yoke inclined at 50 degrees to the horizontal with the speedo projecting over the top of the monitor and inclined at about 80 degrees to the horizontal.
I hope to have the rough shape in foam and ply by the end of tomorrow

Complicated stuff. Looking forward to seeing the results!

350TSS · 07-10-2017, 12:45 AM

When we moved to our house about 7 years ago it came with an adjacent plot of land that was entirely overgrown with brambles and had about 100 pine trees between 40 and 60 feet tall, horrible spindly things that blotted out the sun.
My son suffers from ecthyma and it became markedly worse as soon as we moved in. It turned out he has an allergy to pine pollen so the trees had to go. I bought a chain saw and cut a few down but it was laborious and quite dangerous as dropping them and dropping them where you want them to fall are two entirely different things. Eventually I hired a 12 tonne digger and had enormous fun for 3 days pushing them over. I still have two large garage sized piles of logs, one at either end of the plot. Over the past 5 years I have burned all the smaller diameter logs in the wood burner, and my log piles now consist almost entirely of logs with a diameter more than 200mm.
My chop saw will only handle up to 150mm diameter so I have to use the chain saw and I absolutely hate cutting the logs with my left foot on the log to steady it and all my weight on my right leg. You are unbalanced that way and if anything went wrong the first thing the chainsaw contacts is your right shin.
This is all relevant to a “slow monster build” because what I did today slowed the build down. Some while ago I found in a skip a trolley jack without either of its castors or its rear wheels, the hydraulics worked and at the time I thought I would make either a bearing press or a tyre bead breaker. It never happened. Today I recycled the wheel- less jack (and some steel work from some ancient and non - functioning gym equipment left by the last tenants) into a chain saw horse.

I had to invert the hydraulic cylinder so it pushed down rather than up.

350TSS · 07-10-2017, 01:00 AM

Some fly screen work got done but nowhere near as much as I had hoped. Basically what I was trying to do was to place on the base board the potential clashes with clip ons, instruments etc and then provide a skeleton to hold the foam that avoided these clashes and hopefully enabled me to envision the final shape. Basically I tried cutting bits of ply using a set of compasses to mark out the arcs of the shape I required, I worked on one half at a time. The compasses were no use whatsoever as constant radius curves just look all wrong, so I ended up drawing them free hand, held them in place and adjusted them with the jigsaw and when I got one right I just copied it for the other side. Still a good days work yet to build the skeleton as I think the really tricky bit to get looking right is the lower half from the centre of the headlamp lens to the bottom yoke.

utopia · 07-10-2017, 02:48 AM

There is something in your approach that reminds me of my own, but the level to which you take it never fails to astound me.
The self sufficient ingenuity is like John Seymour for bikes.
And it makes a great read.

Albie · 07-10-2017, 05:14 AM

I have seen this work. It may look odd but it works. I love popping in for a cuppa and update

Luddite · 07-10-2017, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350TSS

Received my MOSFET regulator from China (came without connectors to attach so I will have to source those and without any instructions or wiring diagrams whatsoever). It has 5 spades in connector blocks, there are six wires coming from the old but two red ones are joined. I will have to work out which wire goes where. Tracing wiring diagrams without physical pictures of wires joining connectors is not my strong suit.
Clearly it makes sense for the connection to the regulator to be as close to the pivot point on the mounting as this will minimize any stress on the cables/connectors. Also, it makes sense that the connectors / cable exits point rearward to minimise the chance of water ingress and to allow the most direct route to the main wiring harness. In this orientation with both the old and the new regulators the cooling fins are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel, which is unavoidable but somehow annoying.
The MOSFET regulator with molded in connector blocks is about 15mm shallower but about 25mm longer than the original. With the complication of not knowing the wiring and the fact that the longer MOSFET regulator would project about 60 mm in front of the leading edge of the bottom yoke I decided to stick with the old regulator. I cut out the mounting plate from 6mm aluminium plate with my trusty jigsaw accordingly. I had to grind off the guide prongs on the outer edge of my new 26mm cabinet hinge cutter which projected about 2mm below the face cutter (it was designed for cutting chipboard or MDF) and I recessed the thrust bearing faces about a mm each side.

Fascinating and inspiring reading as always, Rich. I see your new regulator has two connectors, presumably containing three and two spades. If it helps, the connections in the three tag connector will go to the alternator coils (the yellow wires on your OE unit) and the other connector with the two remaining tags will be positive and negative (the siamesed red wires and black wire on the original).

If you've got a multimeter with a diode tester, you can also work out which of the two tags on the new regulator is positive. Using the diode test setting, attach the red lead to one of the two tags and the black lead to one of the three tags. If you get a reading (something around 0.4 - 0.7) then you're attached to the negative terminal; if, on the other hand, you see no continuity, then it's the positive terminal.

Hope that saves you wrestling with the wiring diagrams!

Looking forward to the rest of the build.

350TSS · 07-10-2017, 09:50 PM

Luddite - thanks - I was given a multimeter for Christmas a few years back and have never really worked out how to use it - so maybe this is my chance

350TSS · 12-10-2017, 02:35 AM

As usual with a build, some days, things go well and………………………????? You can fill in the blanks.
The fly screen skeleton is progressing, I have probably two more ribs to cut then I can fill the holes with foam and roughly sand it back and see better what the finished product will look like.
I am hoping that the time I spent pondering the outcome whilst building the skeleton will mean that I can progress to the filler skimming stage without too much modification.

350TSS · 12-10-2017, 02:37 AM

Another thing that went well was that last week, for a very good price, I bought a non-running Monster S4 less tank, seat wheels and front brakes (calipers, master cylinder and brake lines). It was delivered about 150 miles by the seller for a price I could not hire a van and get fuel for the round trip – RESULT.

350TSS · 12-10-2017, 02:38 AM

Now the bad news
Last week I pursued the Hall effect ignition module from
http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz
as suggested earlier by Dukedesmo on Page 16. I choked a bit (a lot) on the price, filled in all my details and debit card etc., etc., and pressed “place order now” to be confronted with “we do not dispatch to your location”. I then spent about 3 hours researching to see if I could get it elsewhere – no joy.
There are 3 reasons I want this bit of kit (despite/almost) whatever the price;
1. Elimination of wasted spark - it is a much better engineering solution all round – the academic justification.
2. I have completely painted myself into a corner on the space to fit all the electrickery. The CF fuel tank mold is 15 mm above the rear cylinder head, there is nowhere under the seat, the space behind the steering head is going to be jam packed with the battery and the MUV2 unit and connectors. – the practical justification
3. When I was trying to remove the main drive pinion from the RH end crankshaft and it was not budging I thought a bit of heat would help, so I applied my brazing blow torch to the pinion. Unfortunately, so intent was I on the blackness, blueness, purpleness of the pinion that I failed to notice that the central plastic cam belt cover had caught fire. The bottom edge is a bit f***ed despite me licking my fingers, extinguishing the flames and at the same time trying to re-form the shape of the smoldering plastic – the bodger’s justification
I kid myself that I am seeking to spend an insane amount of money to replace a fully functioning system are entirely related to items 1 and 2 above but the reality is items 2 and 3 are the drivers.

07-10-2017, 05:14 AM	#340
Albie Fanactical volunteer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent Bike: M900 Posts: 9,034	I have seen this work. It may look odd but it works. I love popping in for a cuppa and update __________________ http://albies93m900.blogspot.co.uk/

05-10-2017, 10:10 AM	#331
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422

05-10-2017, 10:11 AM	#332
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	I was quite pleased with the outcome and then I fitted it and it worked, secure enough to hold the regulator without excessive up and down play and without causing any tightening of the steering. BUT……………… It projected down towards the wheel more than I thought, so I checked on my S4 which is hanging on ratchet straps with its forks fully extended. I measured the exposed chrome part of the fork slider and then I measured the gap between the top of the mudguard to the lowest point on the bottom yoke, then I subtracted the depth of the underslung regulator. There would be a 10mm clash on full depression of the front forks. Bugger, bum, guts as my late father would say. At this point you question your sanity. You have what you think is a good idea and you invest quite a bit of effort to make it work but it doesn’t. Other locations for the regulator (either one) were considered but all seemed sub optimal (either hidden and protected from the air flow (behind or under the battery) or too much on display (immediately outside the alternator case) or requiring too much loom to get to (in or under the seat hump). So, Hobson’s choice was to make a plate for the MOSFET regulator and sort out the difficult aesthetic of it projecting forward from the bottom yoke by 60mm at a later date. This I think is achievable given that I have not made the head lamp brackets yet so the fore and aft position of the head lamp is not yet fixed and the mold for the fly screen is barely started. I still have to untangle the clash between the instrument nacelle and the head lamp and forward movement of the head lamp will obviously help in this respect, although I have already filed a flat on the headlamp shell mold to accommodate the CCTV monitor.

05-10-2017, 10:13 AM	#333
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422

05-10-2017, 10:30 PM	#334
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Productive day today, made a plate for the MOSFET regulator and in the interests of allowing some cool air to the fins behind the leading fin, through drilled it. Also drilled and countersunk the mounting plate to increase the surface area of the plate and to lighten it. Masked up the regulator and gave it about 4 coats of PJI.

05-10-2017, 11:04 PM	#335
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	I also spent a long time working out how to make the mold for the fly screen. The areas of concern are: 1. Disguising the projecting regulator beneath the bottom yoke 2. Ensuring the aesthetics are right with sufficient rake on the screen above the headlamp see also 5 below 3. Fitting LED indicators and running lights, both are quite ugly as individual components so I need to put them somewhere they can fulfil their function and be seen by oncoming traffic, and, in the case of the indicators have sufficient separation, but are unobtrusive to a static observer of the bike 4. Interface with and space for clip ons and the brake and clutch master cylinder and any potential clash with the headlamp shell / headlamp shell bracketry 5. Interface with the instrument nacelle whether the nacelle acts as a support for the screen and whether there is effectively an interior dash board that may permit the mounting of a voltmeter 6. Mounting points for the fly screen (and methods of attachment - secure screws or Dzuz fasteners) and access to the head lamp side bolts to adjust beam height/ and or change bulbs 7. Whether the face of the headlamp lens needs to move forwards or down or both. Interestingly re 1 above I checked my S4 and the distance between the bottom yoke and the plastic bit between the twin horns is about 60mm so my 70mm need not look too bad. To get the “right” rake the instrument nacelle will have to be remade with the CCTV monitor set just below and in front of the bottom of the top yoke inclined at 50 degrees to the horizontal with the speedo projecting over the top of the monitor and inclined at about 80 degrees to the horizontal. I hope to have the rough shape in foam and ply by the end of tomorrow

07-10-2017, 12:45 AM	#337
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	When we moved to our house about 7 years ago it came with an adjacent plot of land that was entirely overgrown with brambles and had about 100 pine trees between 40 and 60 feet tall, horrible spindly things that blotted out the sun. My son suffers from ecthyma and it became markedly worse as soon as we moved in. It turned out he has an allergy to pine pollen so the trees had to go. I bought a chain saw and cut a few down but it was laborious and quite dangerous as dropping them and dropping them where you want them to fall are two entirely different things. Eventually I hired a 12 tonne digger and had enormous fun for 3 days pushing them over. I still have two large garage sized piles of logs, one at either end of the plot. Over the past 5 years I have burned all the smaller diameter logs in the wood burner, and my log piles now consist almost entirely of logs with a diameter more than 200mm. My chop saw will only handle up to 150mm diameter so I have to use the chain saw and I absolutely hate cutting the logs with my left foot on the log to steady it and all my weight on my right leg. You are unbalanced that way and if anything went wrong the first thing the chainsaw contacts is your right shin. This is all relevant to a “slow monster build” because what I did today slowed the build down. Some while ago I found in a skip a trolley jack without either of its castors or its rear wheels, the hydraulics worked and at the time I thought I would make either a bearing press or a tyre bead breaker. It never happened. Today I recycled the wheel- less jack (and some steel work from some ancient and non - functioning gym equipment left by the last tenants) into a chain saw horse. I had to invert the hydraulic cylinder so it pushed down rather than up.

07-10-2017, 01:00 AM	#338
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Some fly screen work got done but nowhere near as much as I had hoped. Basically what I was trying to do was to place on the base board the potential clashes with clip ons, instruments etc and then provide a skeleton to hold the foam that avoided these clashes and hopefully enabled me to envision the final shape. Basically I tried cutting bits of ply using a set of compasses to mark out the arcs of the shape I required, I worked on one half at a time. The compasses were no use whatsoever as constant radius curves just look all wrong, so I ended up drawing them free hand, held them in place and adjusted them with the jigsaw and when I got one right I just copied it for the other side. Still a good days work yet to build the skeleton as I think the really tricky bit to get looking right is the lower half from the centre of the headlamp lens to the bottom yoke.

07-10-2017, 02:48 AM	#339
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,562	There is something in your approach that reminds me of my own, but the level to which you take it never fails to astound me. The self sufficient ingenuity is like John Seymour for bikes. And it makes a great read.

07-10-2017, 09:50 PM	#342
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Luddite - thanks - I was given a multimeter for Christmas a few years back and have never really worked out how to use it - so maybe this is my chance

12-10-2017, 02:35 AM	#343
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	As usual with a build, some days, things go well and………………………????? You can fill in the blanks. The fly screen skeleton is progressing, I have probably two more ribs to cut then I can fill the holes with foam and roughly sand it back and see better what the finished product will look like. I am hoping that the time I spent pondering the outcome whilst building the skeleton will mean that I can progress to the filler skimming stage without too much modification.

12-10-2017, 02:37 AM	#344
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Another thing that went well was that last week, for a very good price, I bought a non-running Monster S4 less tank, seat wheels and front brakes (calipers, master cylinder and brake lines). It was delivered about 150 miles by the seller for a price I could not hire a van and get fuel for the round trip – RESULT.

12-10-2017, 02:38 AM	#345
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Now the bad news Last week I pursued the Hall effect ignition module from http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz as suggested earlier by Dukedesmo on Page 16. I choked a bit (a lot) on the price, filled in all my details and debit card etc., etc., and pressed “place order now” to be confronted with “we do not dispatch to your location”. I then spent about 3 hours researching to see if I could get it elsewhere – no joy. There are 3 reasons I want this bit of kit (despite/almost) whatever the price; 1. Elimination of wasted spark - it is a much better engineering solution all round – the academic justification. 2. I have completely painted myself into a corner on the space to fit all the electrickery. The CF fuel tank mold is 15 mm above the rear cylinder head, there is nowhere under the seat, the space behind the steering head is going to be jam packed with the battery and the MUV2 unit and connectors. – the practical justification 3. When I was trying to remove the main drive pinion from the RH end crankshaft and it was not budging I thought a bit of heat would help, so I applied my brazing blow torch to the pinion. Unfortunately, so intent was I on the blackness, blueness, purpleness of the pinion that I failed to notice that the central plastic cam belt cover had caught fire. The bottom edge is a bit f***ed despite me licking my fingers, extinguishing the flames and at the same time trying to re-form the shape of the smoldering plastic – the bodger’s justification I kid myself that I am seeking to spend an insane amount of money to replace a fully functioning system are entirely related to items 1 and 2 above but the reality is items 2 and 3 are the drivers.