I thought I would restore this just for the hell of it

[TimM900]

Loosk a good project, I did up a 160 single years ago and that was fun to ride. I was a bit confused for a minute there, your photobucket photos show a v-twin engine... wonder if it would fit...

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks for the info Dookbob.
Black and Yellow is my favourite combo for the early bikes, especially on the 750GT.
It will look smashing in Red though.

Forks wouldn't be Ceriani would they?

Don't think they are Ceriani, I have a diagram for those and mine are nothing like them. Apparently there were three different forks used at different stages of production, ceriani, Marzocci and Ducati,s own version. I have three different manuals for these bikes and my forks are not illustrated in any of them. Even the oil seals that all the classic parts suppliers sell won't fit, I had to source a pair from a general engineering company for a pair that fit.
All the other forks have two seals in each leg, mine only have one. I,m thinking now that maybe the Spanish used a different brand of fork than all the others, hence the difference in mine, so it,s going to be interesting to see how they handle.

[MerlinPV12]

Great, a Dookbob restoration to see me through the winter, looking forward to the updates and the finished bike, which will no doubt be of the highest standard.

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

Don't think they are Ceriani, I have a diagram for those and mine are nothing like them. Apparently there were three different forks used at different stages of production, ceriani, Marzocci and Ducati,s own version. I have three different manuals for these bikes and my forks are not illustrated in any of them. Even the oil seals that all the classic parts suppliers sell won't fit, I had to source a pair from a general engineering company for a pair that fit.
All the other forks have two seals in each leg, mine only have one. I,m thinking now that maybe the Spanish used a different brand of fork than all the others, hence the difference in mine, so it,s going to be interesting to see how they handle.

That's looking lovely- as you know I am a big fan of the little singles and if I can help then please just ask.

Certainly the forks don't look like Ceriani to me and they're not like the Marzocchis that are fitted to my little racer and the yokes look very different to the ones used for either of those too (Each brand of forks uses the same brand of yoke from all that I have ever seen- even the scrapers are different between them too).

As for the seals, you are right about them using two seals in each leg but from the information I have from the various 'single Gurus' the reason was simply that the material used back then was a bit rubbish and was done simply to stop them leaking so frequently.

Of course there is nothing wrong in continuing fitting two (other than perhaps the effect of 'stiction' that using two sets may create) but you can buy seals that come with an aluminium spacer to take up the difference of the second seal which is obviously reusuable when it comes to replacement.

What diameter forks do you have fitted?

Very early Widecase bikes (which yours may be) used 31.5mm rather than the later 35mm.

Also to throw another into the mix the early 125 /175cc bikes used 30mm forks.

When I got Maxton to do the conversion of my Marzocchi forks I kept the internals so I can take photos (or anything else but my bikes is not very original now) for comparison if needed.

[Mr Gazza]

emzedder has a Spanish 250... He'll be along soon...

[Flip]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

emzedder has a Spanish 250... He'll be along soon...

Yep!! I forgot about that and I'm sure he will too.

Although his Motorans 250 is a Narrowcase like mine and pretty sure it has Marzocchi forks fitted.

Thanks for your comments Flip, it,s useful to know that I have a source of info whilst I am on my learning curve with this 250 single. My forks are 35mm and apart from the mudguard brackets being cracked at the welds they were in a surprisingly good condition. Replacing the seals is the easiest seal swap I have ever encountered on any bike. These seal holders were never made to take two seals ( or one seal and a spacer even) . There is only room in the rebate for one 7.5mm deep seal followed by the circlip. All the new seals stocked by the spares people are of 47mm outside diameter, mine are 45mm which is what makes me think that these are Spanish forks. The previous owner had fitted the seal correctly and then glued another seal on top of it, this was all lurking under the dust cover, what a mess it was too. The yokes are original and have never previously been stripped, the ball bearings were worn half way through. There was no steering damper on the bike when I got it, but once I get a good look at one. Or can get an accurate diagram of one, I will make one, the friction plates are still available.
Thanks for taking an interest in my resto Flip, the next nightmare will start when I strip the engine.

[Flip]

Oh and just to add a little more confusion to the mix- it appears Narrow case Marrzocchi yokes are different to Wide case ones and Ceriani as far as I can see are the same.

How odd.... but that's not only Ducati but 'early' Ducati!!

It's all good fun and if it's anything like mine you'll keep on learning.

Who are you using for parts and information etc?

[emzedder]

I made the mistake of thinking publications are always correct. Depending upon year some models share very few parts with their Italian manufactured cousin. Trying to source parts for my '71 250 24 Horas 5 speed with a particularly close ratio box has been problematic to say the least and some I am having to have made or fabricated from other parts should I need them, engine internals are not compatible in many respects - but you probably know that. I'm in contact with guys in States, Holland , Spain, Italy and my particular model was such a short run parts are very rare.

I have an original Spanish language maintenance / owner book that I can copy if that helps ... with a bit of help from Google Translate might be useful.

I have the original buff logbook and Vic Camp himself is the first registered owner ...first customer owner changed a year later so maybe a demonstrator before he fell out with the Spanish and withdrew.

To Flip:- So far I have obtained parts from "Classic Ducati". and "Lacey ". So far I have only bought what are the usual service items, i.e. Bearings, oil seals, sprockets and chain etc. No doubt this will escalate once I start on the motor.
To Emzedder:- Interesting to learn of your experience with your 250. My bike has the 5 speed box too, I,m hoping that there won,t be much in the way of replacement parts needed though. It has had a hard life as you would expect from a scrambler, but I don,t
think it is a high mileage bike, it has only had one first stage ( 0.4mm ) rebore in it,s 47 years. Thanks for the offer of a copy of your Spanish manual, I would really appreciate that.

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by Dookbob

Thanks for the offer of a copy of your Spanish manual, I would really appreciate that.

Found an English language owners manual for the Ducati 350 Scrambler, as with most Ducati models the 250, 350 & 450 engines were the same basic design so it might be of use?

Let me know if you'd like it and I'll email or upload it somewhere for you to download.

[emzedder]

Lacey and Classic Ducati are very good for service parts but limited on assistance with Spanish parts. I have a list of contacts if you ever need them, there is a guy in France that ahs contact with Italy but you have to visit the French EBay site to make contact. Kickstart quadrant and mating gear are totally unobtainable second hand and these are the Achilles heel for singles damaged by kickback. So lesson is (a) make sure ignition is spot on and (b) always fit decompressor if not fitted to avoid possibility and (c) ensure mixture not too weak. Parts are really hard to come by, I use mine and gets a hard time- as they should - most are in collections.

Originally Posted by Dukedesmo

Found an English language owners manual for the Ducati 350 Scrambler, as with most Ducati models the 250, 350 & 450 engines were the same basic design so it might be of use?

Let me know if you'd like it and I'll email or upload it somewhere for you to download.

Thanks very much for the offer Dukedesmo, but I have a Clymer manual that covers those, it,s just that my forks are not covered by it. I,m only assuming that my bike is a Spanish manufactured version because it was imported into the UK from Zarragoza. the Spanish owner could have imported it from anywhere I suppose. I wonder is there anything included in the chassis number that might indicate where it was built. the number starts off with DM250S, I assumed that the S refers to the fact that it is a scrambler, but that is only a guess on my part.

Originally Posted by emzedder

Lacey and Classic Ducati are very good for service parts but limited on assistance with Spanish parts. I have a list of contacts if you ever need them, there is a guy in France that ahs contact with Italy but you have to visit the French EBay site to make contact. Kickstart quadrant and mating gear are totally unobtainable second hand and these are the Achilles heel for singles damaged by kickback. So lesson is (a) make sure ignition is spot on and (b) always fit decompressor if not fitted to avoid possibility and (c) ensure mixture not too weak. Parts are really hard to come by, I use mine and gets a hard time- as they should - most are in collections.

I will keep in mind the fact that you have some contacts in Europe for Spanish parts if I need to obtain any. My kick start seemed ok when I used it a couple of times before stripping the bike, but thanks for the heads up on it,s possible weakness under kickback conditions. It doesn,t have a decompressor fitted currently, so I must look into fitting one if it,s at all possible when I come to rebuild the engine. Would you know wether or not it is possible to clean out the centrifugal sludge trap in the crank without removing the crank from it,s cases. I have had the plug out to take a look, and it definitely needs doing one way or another. If I have to renew the big end needle roller then it will be out anyway of course, but it was just a thought.
My apologies to our Monster owners for hijacking the thread space on here, I did look at some other forums, but they dont seem to have the knowledge base that this forum has, and as you all know , the UKMOC has a comraderie that is second to none.