A simple series of tests for your rectifier

[Wrider]

Originally Posted by spuggy

I bought 2 used Shindengen series R/R (one of which was removed from a 2019 Panginale) for just over half of what they're asking for that MOSFET shunt R/R. Look for an SH821AA; fitted to many post-2011 bikes, including Ducatis.

In fact, I just checked Flea Bay, and the same seller (james_sherlock) I bought the other two from was listing one removed from a Yamaha for 29 squid, free postage. Just bought that too, so now all my Monsters will get one...

(A series R/R draws only the current from the alternator that the bike is consuming. A shunt runs the alternator 100% duty cycle 100% of the time - and shunts any excess it doesn't want back into the stator windings, making them hotter and the wires crispier).

Adding in the most expensive Triumph link cable I bought (30 quid) still comes in cheaper than a shunt from an unknown manufacturer. Or you could have superior technology made by the Japanese OEM supplier to almost every motorcycle manufacturer on the planet. Your choice...

I’ve bought a sh821aa but where can I get the wires. Sorry I’m terrible at this stuff lol

[dacs]

Originally Posted by Wrider

I’ve bought a sh821aa but where can I get the wires. Sorry I’m terrible at this stuff lol

I bought one as well - got my leads from Ebay, but any Triumph dealer should be able to supply, they fit the Street Triple 675, part no. T2500676 (according to my Ebay listing). I haven't got as far as plugging them into the Monster loom yet, but they look like they will do the job.
Spuggy and Luddite, for two excellent threads that have given me the confidence to dabble in electrics.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by dacs

I bought one as well - got my leads from Ebay, but any Triumph dealer should be able to supply, they fit the Street Triple 675, part no. T2500676 (according to my Ebay listing).

Yeh, actually, Fowler's in Bristol had 10 in stock on Tuesday (9 now, sorry boys ) https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/view/T2500676

They were cheaper than anyone I saw on Flea Bay @ 20.57 GBP (VAT included), and will pop them in a plain brown envelope and mail them out for 3-4 quid; got mine today.

That's a pint you owe me

Originally Posted by dacs

I haven't got as far as plugging them into the Monster loom yet, but they look like they will do the job.

For the doubled-up battery leads, take a small flat-bladed screwdriver, stick it down the front of the connector block while pushing the wire/terminal towards you, feel for/locate the tang that holds the terminal in, and pull the wire out the back. Repeat.

Do the same for the Ducati connector block on your original rectifier, and then you can swap the Ducati locking connector block onto the Triumph link cable - just adjust the terminal tang so it's slighly proud if it got flat, push the terminal into the block until it clicks/locks.

And then you'll have the locking function on the block on the Triumph cable as well. Might want to add a small zip tie; the lock doesn't quite hold the connector 100% of the way in... (to clarify this is mostly to make it more weathertight - the electrical connection is fine)

Originally Posted by dacs

Spuggy and Luddite, for two excellent threads that have given me the confidence to dabble in electrics.

Heh. My lithium battery hasn't caught fire yet - and seems to be both charging like a champ and delivering the rated 280CCA (the YB12 is 220CCA, I believe).

Hit the button, big pause while it winds up - fires up every time...

And they discharge 1% per month if you don't use the bike, not 10% like lead acid. I'm, like, so over lead acid/AGM technology...

[Luddite]

Originally Posted by spuggy

I bought 2 used Shindengen series R/R (one of which was removed from a 2019 Panginale) for just over half of what they're asking for that MOSFET shunt R/R. Look for an SH821AA; fitted to many post-2011 bikes, including Ducatis.

I may be misreading your post, Spuggy, and, if that's the case, apologies, but are you saying the SH821 is a series type regulator? Edit:(As far as I'm aware, the only Shindengen models that are series type regulators are the SH775 and SH847.)

As you say, it's fitted as standard to, for example, the 821 and 1200 Monsters and, knowing Ducati as we do, you wouldn't expect the bean counters to authorise a top spec R/R when a cheaper option is available. I was under the impression it was an unremarkable SCR shunt type (I think the S in SH signifies SCR circuitry and the F in FH indicates (MOS)FET).

Having corresponded with Shindengen in the past, I pinged them an email for clarification and, to their credit, they replied straightaway:

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Luddite

I may be misreading your post, Spuggy, and, if that's the case, apologies, but are you saying the SH821 is a series type regulator?

I was under the impression that the SH821 was. But I was wrong; it diode-checks as a shunt.

Well, frolicking puppies and rainbows...

I knew the SH775 is a 35A SCR series R/R, and the SH847 a 50A version of the same. The SH821 is a later (& still current) type; to my mind, it beggars belief that Ducati are still fitting SCR shunts to new bikes...

Ho-hum. Found a cheap source for SH775's (heh - Polaris have jacked the price of their part to $200 since the Strom guys discovered them at 60).

Least the 775 will be a straight swap ...

Originally Posted by Luddite

knowing Ducati as we do, you wouldn't expect the bean counters to authorise a top spec R/R when a cheaper option is available.

Sigh. Until comparatively recently, I did not share your cynicism regarding Ducati's bean counters. I see now that this was naive of me...

Originally Posted by Luddite

I was under the impression it was an unremarkable SCR shunt type (I think the S in SH signifies SCR circuitry and the F in FH indicates (MOS)FET).

Yup, I believe that you are correct.

Having corresponded with Shindengen in the past, I pinged them an email for clarification and, to their credit, they replied straightaway:

FWIW, I'll say "sorry" to anyone I may have inadvertently misled...

[Luddite]

Negotiating your way through all the Shindengen R/Rs is a real minefield, Spuggy, especially as Shindengen themselves don't appear to publish a list of all their models and types, (at least I've never managed to find one).

It also doesn't help that, despite producing products with fundamentally different circuitry, Shindengen uses the same labelling system to identify them all - SH775, SH821, SH847 - you can't tell from the model no. which is shunt and which, if any, is series. It would be much simpler if the series type had its own dedicated suffix (they do identify the MOSFET type with an 'F' after all). But that would make life too easy, wouldn't it?!

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Luddite

Negotiating your way through all the Shindengen R/Rs is a real minefield, Spuggy, especially as Shindengen themselves don't appear to publish a list of all their models and types, (at least I've never managed to find one).

Indeed; The closest I've found was this: https://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threa...tifiers.10005/

And although that list is quite useful, the very first entry (for an SH775) is incorrect, as that unit isn't a MOSFET Series R/R....

Originally Posted by Luddite

It also doesn't help that, despite producing products with fundamentally different circuitry, Shindengen uses the same labelling system to identify them all - SH775, SH821, SH847 - you can't tell from the model no. which is shunt and which, if any, is series. It would be much simpler if the series type had its own dedicated suffix (they do identify the MOSFET type with an 'F' after all). But that would make life too easy, wouldn't it?!

LOL... Where would we be if /anyone/ could look up accurate, definitive technical information easily, at the click of a button, eh? Oh, wait, right - pretty much anytime from the tail-end of the 20th Century onwards....

As you appear to have a corporate A/C with those guys (required to open an account/ask web-form questions - understandable given they're 100% OEM/zero retail), would you be in a position to ask for specific datasheets? Or technical questions?


Reason for asking is that the SH775 is an 35A SCR-based series R/R. It used to be dirt-cheap ($60), but now is much more expensive (like $192 as a Polaris OEM part), and is known to have at least one problem;intended for an ATV, it doesn't regulate over some high RPM - variously reported to be 9,000 RPM (strongly disputed by guys who've measured theirs at this), or 10,000 RPM.

In the absence of any real evidence, looks like you could choose what you want to believe:

https://www.vmaxforum.net/threads/re...-esr279.47773/
https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/a....748962/page-2

And even Jake is only repeating what some customers have told him, apparently https://v4musclebike.com/forums/show...ndengen&page=3

(BTW, page two of that thread has a video of a chap statically rev'ing his bike to 10,000 RPM, and the voltage output from the SH775 remains constant - another guy in the same thread says he had the SH775 fitted and working perfectly for 2 years before he even heard there was supposed to be an issue over 10,000 RPM)...

But it'd be really, really nice to have a definitive statement from ShinDengen... Apparently, some of those Triumph 4's are red-lined at 14,000, 16,000 RPM (wow, ...). I can see how any limit would matter to them.

Jake used to supply the SH775. He now doesn't, and recommends the SH847 instead - because gets them for almost the same money. He has expressed concerns regarding the SH775 and the RPM limit; he isn't convinced that the shutdown it performs when this limit is exceeded (which he states as 9-10K, so quotes 9K to be conservative) is non-harmful to the unit itself. From his POV, the SH775 is potentially problematic for some and very close to the same price as the SH847 - which has more capacity and works with everything...


I can see exactly where he's coming from. but

• the SH775 can be sourced cheaper (like ~50% cost) of the SH847,
• I kind of doubt any intentional unit shutdown is harmful to the unit (resumes regulation as soon as RPM drops back into range, apparently) - I'd be much more concerned if it went over-voltage/over-current/out-of-regulation entirely - and the only reports indicating that this is what it does don't seem especially credible/backed up by any measurements...
• I remain unconvinced that a 10K RPM design limit is a serious issue for most V-twins..

[Flip]

Originally Posted by spuggy

As you appear to have a corporate A/C with those guys (required to open an account/ask web-form questions - understandable given they're 100% OEM/zero retail), would you be in a position to ask for specific datasheets? Or technical questions?[/LIST]

Oh you can ask them what you like via the web form - they just don’t like giving you an answer.

Here’s their response when I asked this:

“Can you please tell me the difference between the FH012AA and the FH020AA which replaced it?“

Fm.Shindengen

Thank you very much for inquiry through our company website.
We are very pleased to answer to your demand.

Our car electric components are customized product for the Motorcycle Manufacturer.
We deeply apologize but due to a trade agreement with the Motorcycle Manufacturer, we are prohibited to sales and disclose any information of our products to customer directly.

We apologize for this inconvenience but please contact with the official sales store of the Motorcycle Manufacturer.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Flip

We deeply apologize but due to a trade agreement with the Motorcycle Manufacturer, we are prohibited to sales and disclose any information of our products to customer directly.

We apologize for this inconvenience but please contact with the official sales store of the Motorcycle Manufacturer.

That is hilarious, it's just a pity that it is also obstructive and totally unhelpful...

[adie851]

Question for you gents....a mate of mine had a MOTOBATT AGM on his bike...told me his bike wouldn't start...took a Lithium with me ( higher CCA ) just to prove battery is probably flat.....he said when trying to start it was just chattering ie rattling the starter sprag..thus insufficient current to spin it over.....the MOTOBATT showing over 12volts but not enough current to spin over the bike....once an AGM battery is flat....ie this one hadn't been charged for months and it was an old battery.....are they beyond being recovered back to a fully charged state.....I've had both good and bad experiences with MOTOBATT over the years....Incidentally , the Lithium fired the bike up straight away...Look forward to your replies.Thanks.

adie851

[Luddite]

It's generally accepted that AGM batteries shouldn't be discharged by more than 50%, (which equates to 11.95v). If left heavily discharged for a long period, it may be impossible to recharge it fully. There are 'hacks' you can try to recover it, for example charging it in parallel with another, healthy, AGM battery. But, if you've any doubts about the battery's health, you're probably better off just replacing it.

[adie851]

Thanks Vince, I thought it if the AGM was well discharged then it would be game over.
Cheers adie851