Monster 900Sie 50000mile refresh.

[Zimbo]

Excellent work, battery acid marks are a pain on these frames, this seems an excellent way to fix it! Unfortunately my bikes have never been pristine enough for this to be an issue! Keep up the posts, enjoying the progress ...

[Mr Gazza]

I managed a few hours in the bike shed yesterday.
I buffed up the humbrol frame touch up and I'm satisfied that it's much better than before with the rusty mark in the crotch of the weld completely disappeared and the "bird dropping" on the tube now so subtle as to not notice, especially on the "down" side on the stand.

Spent most of the time scaping paint off the spare tank.. How tedious! Still can't bring myself to touch the one off the bike, but it's really quite scabby in places.

I had a lift this evening when I opened a box from Nasher.




It's a set of his hybrid forks, using Monster Showa outers with the bottoms and innards from a 1098. He's a clever chap. It's very nicely done.

The Monster outers actually came from Mark's (Darkness) estate. I bought the forks from his widow via Nasher.
When I decided to abandon the 750SS project that the forks were destined for, Nasher got wind and bought the forks from me. So back to Hampshire they went, to be hybridised for a customer of Nasher's.
Whilst discussing a project I was scheming, to convert an ST3 into an S3 Monster, Nasher mentioned that he still had the forks and we conspired to do another deal with them only with 1098 internals this time.
So time passes and I managed to stave off the impulse to build an S3, but the Monster was feeling decidedly under par, brake wise, compared to my new bike with radial calipers, master and ABS.
So when Nasher returned from a lengthy and unexpected trip abroad the conversation continued and here they are back in Norfolk again with about 600 miles on the clock already!

[Nasher]

Glad they arrived OK Sir G

It’s been a long time since we first discussed these forks, mainly because of my unexpected work trip, so for the benefit of everyone else it’s worth me pointing out a couple of things.

The point of the exercise is of course to provide updated damper etc technology and radial brakes with the older 50/54mm yokes.
The Superbikes, 848/1098, etc have 53/53mm Outers and Yokes.
This set I’ve built to the same spec as the ones I built for my M1000ie, and I think they are a good improvement.
The other benefit is the swap to Radial Calipers. Although the discs need spacing out on the wheel either side by @4.5mm to line up with the new Calipers.

Just to be clear, the Outers have no effect on the overall length of the fork assembly.
The length is set by the length of the Damper rod etc inside, which in this case has to come from the 848/1098 forks.
So they are superbike length and longer than Monster forks by I think @15-20mm, so need to be higher up in the yokes than the Monster forks to keep the ride height and geometry the same.

Also, the outers from Marks stash are longer than Monster ones, but slightly shorter than SS ones. We never did establish what they are from.
It’s perfectly possible to build a pair with Monster outers, but more of the stanchion will be exposed and they might look a bit ‘Motorcross’.
The distance between the sliding bushes would also be shorter, so they could wear out a little quicker with slightly increased forces acting on them.

I have worked out a way to shorthen the whole assembly with some machining of the Damper rod assembly and possibly stanchion.
It’s complicated by the 848/1098 damper adjustment system having a rod tapered at the end which is almost the full length of the forks.
But until I’ve tried this for myself I can’t be 100% certain the adjustment won’t be compromised.

Good luck!

[Nasher]

This is what they look like in my M1000, except that I used a set of 1098 forks that have Black Chrome Stanchions:



And I've also built a set for my 1000SS with 900SL Bodywork:

[yellowfever]

Enjoying this thread, keep it coming! Actually the piano wire tank de-clog method may be relevant for me and my plastic tank at some point (although I guess I’ll have to use less agressive chemicals), as it’s partly blocked and I couldn’t clear it properly as least with the tank in situ.

I was hoping this issue would be moot as I would have swapped to an alu tank by now as the usual plastic tank/modern fuel issue is gradually ruining my expensive custom paint and I’ve no desire to get it repainted only to face same issue again. But I’m still waiting (probably in vain now) for my alu tank ordered with 50% deposit paid over 3 years ago…strangely others got their tanks fine (and quite quickly) but for some mysterious reason my order has yet to be honoured. if anyone lucky enough to have got an alu tank that fits S2R is ever selling it please let me know!

[900Rebuilder]

Originally Posted by yellowfever

Enjoying this thread, keep it coming! Actually the piano wire tank de-clog method may be relevant for me and my plastic tank at some point (although I guess I’ll have to use less agressive chemicals), as it’s partly blocked and I couldn’t clear it properly as least with the tank in situ.

I was hoping this issue would be moot as I would have swapped to an alu tank by now as the usual plastic tank/modern fuel issue is gradually ruining my expensive custom paint and I’ve no desire to get it repainted only to face same issue again. But I’m still waiting (probably in vain now) for my alu tank ordered with 50% deposit paid over 3 years ago…strangely others got their tanks fine (and quite quickly) but for some mysterious reason my order has yet to be honoured. if anyone lucky enough to have got an alu tank that fits S2R is ever selling it please let me know!

3 years! Must have been from Italy.....

[Mr Gazza]

I'm pretty sure that Mark's forks are from a Monster Sie. The aloominum toobs are the exact same length as on my original Sie forks @485.

Nasher, I remember you telling me that Monster forks are 450 and SS are 500. This must be the non-adjustable type?

I've offered the new forks against the original and the axle is a bit further out than the originals, but it's on the side stand and so will be a bit compressed. There's about 15mm max in it.
Time will tell when I get the chance to pop the bike up on the stem stand and measure the fully extended length.

A 1098/848 axle is also needed for this conversion as it doesn't look like the original would work, but I will try. The later axle needs a sleeve nut to fill the forks properly. The sleeve nut might fit the old spindle? Good ol' Nasher supplied an axle and nut with the forks, so all good and thanks again Nasher.

An issue I might have with my older bike, is that I need to fit the speedo drive gearbox on the axle. This is absent on the later models. (Hall sensor rear wheel.)
Initial glances seem to indicate that there will be enough room, fingers crossed.



I stole these puppies from an Aprilia RSV4. Well it was an ebay auction that ended at a totally unsociable time, so I set my alarm and was the only bidder at the end. The pads were more than the callipers!
They use 4 pads per caliper, so that's 1 pad per piston. I guess the theory is that each piston can deliver it's best pressure to the pad? So far not been able to source Ti pins for them, but to be fair the pins are very hard to see.
I've broken a very long tradition and gone for sintered 4HH pads, having used organic for some decades now, I've stuck with EBC though.
Also got another set of sintered for the rear as you shouldn't mix them. This will leave the new organic rear pads spare.. If anyone has the need?

[Mr Gazza]

David, It's far better to get the tank off and also the filler cap and internal rubber tubes.
The piano wire will just dig in the rubber and stop, or might even puncture it if you got angry enough!

Best to go in from the top as the wire is difficult to get round the 90 degree bend at the bottom. although I don't know if the plastic tanks are configured the same as the metal ones? Also you will displace the blockage to outside the tank rather than into it!

Regarding the Bilt Hamber Deox-C rust eater. I doubt very much it will have any effect on your plastic tank. It comes in a plastic bottle. It eats rust with a veracious appetite but very little else, including sound steel, although they do mention not to use it on plated steel, especially Zinc.

I used a needle on a syringe and so could get it right into the tube. I didn't spill very much at all into the tank that way. Easy to mop out after a little water was sloshed in and then finished off with clutch and brake cleaner which is hygroscopic.

[Mr Gazza]

Managed to escape to the bike shed for long enough to get the Monster up on the front stem stand.
It turns out that the hybrid forks seem to be dimensionally identical (length wise) to my Sie forks. Same tube length, same axle position. There is more stanchion available as the bottom casting is more compact, so whether or not the forks have more travel will remain to be seen. ("Motorcycle Specs" gives both models the same travel @120mm.)

The irony of all this is that the adjustable Showas in my Monster were fully serviced by MCT 3500 miles ago and work better than they ever have in my ownership!

[yellowfever]

Yes, right first time, alu tank order is indeed from Italy… company is not exactly undercutting the stereotype….

Thanks Gary, useful advice as ever. I was intending to take the tank off when I get alu one then sort plastic tank out properly once off the bike and keep as a spare. Not sure on exact plastic tank internal geometry and what the differences are from the metal tanks but indeed tank off and fuel pump out would allow for a proper job. Not going there just yet as I want to concentrate on riding every chance I get as only got bike back on the road again last spring, so just sticking to fast easy quick fettling wins for now. Mind you if current winter looks like it’s sticking around/alu tank option looks truly bust I might get tempted to sort it sooner…

[900Rebuilder]

Originally Posted by yellowfever

Yes, right first time, alu tank order is indeed from Italy… company is not exactly undercutting the stereotype….

Thanks Gary, useful advice as ever. I was intending to take the tank off when I get alu one then sort plastic tank out properly once off the bike and keep as a spare. Not sure on exact plastic tank internal geometry and what the differences are from the metal tanks but indeed tank off and fuel pump out would allow for a proper job. Not going there just yet as I want to concentrate on riding every chance I get as only got bike back on the road again last spring, so just sticking to fast easy quick fettling wins for now. Mind you if current winter looks like it’s sticking around/alu tank option looks truly bust I might get tempted to sort it sooner…

Shame that as my 900 will be a keeper so have an aluminium tank on my radar but will probably just jump on an RR one when it comes up sometime in the future. There's an early Beater one one ebay (or there was) in Japan for around £800 delivered which didnt seem too bad if you have the pennies

[Dukedesmo]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

An issue I might have with my older bike, is that I need to fit the speedo drive gearbox on the axle. This is absent on the later models. (Hall sensor rear wheel.)
Initial glances seem to indicate that there will be enough room, fingers crossed.

It will fit fine.

When I fitted 1198 forks to my 916, I researched this and although I am using a hall effect sensor on the rear disc bolts for an electronic speedo, a front mechanical drive will fit. In fact, I had to fit a 30mm (thickness of the drive) speedo replacement spacer to centre the wheel, shown here;



It fits because the machining for the drive is in the wheel not the forks, the new forks don't have the retainer on the mudguard mount to locate the drive but that is only there for positioning when fitting the wheel, the drive is held in place by being clamped between the forks so, you just need to be careful aligning it before torqueing up the spindle nut.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks Tim.
I think Nasher mentioned a 30mm spacer somewhere along the chats concerning the forks.
It makes absolute sense that the speedo drive should fit, hoping to have a play at the weekend.
I don't think there's a locator on my 900? I'm used to loosely attaching the cable for alignment before nipping the axle up.

[Mr Gazza]

How do you like the new Ducati font?



Paint stripping is proving extremely tedious and I'm not enjoying it!
It seems to be a bit quicker if I warm the tank up with a hot air gun first, then lard the stripper on and leave it about 15-20 minutes. It still always needs two goes to get the persistent patches. Only half way on the spare tank so far!

While the stripper is working I've managed to hoik the front wheel out and drop the fork legs.
The hybrid forks are 3.5mm shorter that the Sie ones, from top to axle centre.
So that's well within a reasonable similarity to get the new ones in the same place as the originals.
As it happens I had dropped the legs through earlier this year to get a bit more trail. It just felt so wobbly and the turn in was nervous. Probably more to do with tyre wear than anything, as that's the only thing that could have changed. I'm 7600 miles in on the tyres so no surprises, even if the tread and profile look good. Metzler Roadtec 01, they were brilliant when new. Debatable whether I re-fit them after re-lacquering the wheels?

First impressions with the forks; the speedo drive fits and seems to put the wheel in the right place with everything hard to the left as it should be. However, I would appear to be in need of a spacer on the right side of the axle. If I push the shoulder up to the wheel bearing to make everything tight, The right had end of the spindle disappears into the fork by about 8mm and then the sleeve nut bottoms out before it has reached the left leg face. An 8mm (approx) spacer on the right side would put it all right, by the looks.
Studying images of 1098 and other axles they seem to come with a large (30mm?) and small spacer, so it would seem to follow that's what I need.
I would of course be extremely grateful if anyone has an unwanted spare I could buy?

Unfortunately while the speedo gearbox fits, the original cable route is blocked by the caliper and it needs to run round below. This will need a longer speedo cable by about 4" at least!
Stumped by that at the moment, but wondering if maybe an SS rev-counter cable would be longer?
I can find various lengths of English speedo and tacho cables, but no idea if the thread on the ends will fit the speedo and gearbox? Probably not!
Club meet in the morning, so further investigations in the afternoon.

[Mr Gazza]

It looks like I need a speedo cable 900mm long, subject to more careful measuring.
I've found that "Motorcycle Products" list their cables by length and I've found one at 900mm for an Yamaha XS 650.
Does anyone know if Japanese and European speedo cables are interchangeable?

I'm not confident that the English Smiths ones would be?