HELP ME. Dealer says no go

Thing that worries me is it all seems to be '@ the next service or while it is being serviced'.

I'm not getting my babe serviced by any Ducati dealer in my area... no way!

mine is going in next saturday. i'll let you know how i get on

It's weird but this only seems to be in the UK - I have scoured the USA site (below) and cannot find a single mention of flakey paint - Have we been sent the duff bikes because they think that we won't complain?

http://www.ducatimonster.org


Will

On the advice of other forum members (CK/AK) I complained to my local dealer (Fylde Superbikes/Ducati manchester) and was asked to supply photos of flakey parts (engine cases & oil cooler) and of bikes general condition.

The dealer has got DUK to agree to new casings and oil cooler, the bike goes in for the work to be carried out in 2 weeks time.

IMO it is the dealer who should persue this for you especially if they supplied the vehicle in the first place, indeed your contract was with them therefore they should sort it out thats why they are an authorised dealer.

Persevere!

Singletrack world web-site (top UK mountain bike site) ran 2 excellent features on consumer rights Sale of Goods Act and Warranty rights . Both were written by a trading standards officer and whilst aimed at bicycles the content is relevant.

That single track web site is excellent and is completely true for the bike.

1. Just because is a motor vehicle and it still goes, doesnt mean the aesthetics dont have to be fit for purpose. If a motorcycle cant take a few months of winter weather then its a bloody bad thing.
2. Your contract is with the dealer, therefore pursue them. If all (or even part) of your bike was paid for on credit card or HP then your contract is also with those companies. This considerably strengthens your bargaining power as they are jointly liable and will lean on the dealer to get this put right. Write a letter and copy it to all parties involved. Explain what you want and why and give them a reasonable timescale to put it right. Even though you do not have a contract directly with Ducati, drag them into the issue and copy them correspondence. Explain that this is under the sale and supply of goods act.
3. Your warranty is IN ADDITION to your statutory rights and not in place of them. Warranty often entitles you to less than your rights in law and its my experience that dealers try to fob you off with clauses in your warranty excluding finish items. Do not accept this. You have far more rights in law than most warranties and the exceptions are used as a smokescreen to get rid of you.
4. Be prepared to take all parties to the small claims court. It rarely goes this far but when I have had occasion to go there you get a fair hearing and costs are minimal. I had to threaten Triumph and a dealer with this a few years back, the job got done and very rapidly.
5. Dont be afraid to visit your local trading standards office, they are there to help you. If you go that route and make a formal complaint, they will follow it up on your behalf. Its best not to go this way if you can sort it amicably with the dealer because you still have to use them for other things and its a bit uncomfortable walking in somewhere that you have threatened / sued etc.

Great summary Duncan. Not seen original poster on this thread for a while so praps he's been buried in concrete by his newcastle dealership!

Any judge would be appalled i'm sure at an 8 month life for paintwork.

Just a few points (cos not wanting to duplicate the good advice so far)

1 - i've never bought a bike or car new!!! but do Dukes/bikes in general come with paintwork warranty at all like some cars do? and if so, do they limit it to tank and body work but not frame and tank etc?

2 - most people will find they have some sort of limited funding for legal advice somewhere - usually attached to home insurance, credit card, car / bikeinsurance, travel insurance etc although it's usually the first 2 that would relate to a consumer dispute such as this.

3 - someone said something about consumables ..... don't let the dealership tell you paint is a consumable cos it aint.

go get em! :twisted:

[CK & AK]

Good Idea Little M

answer to 1 - is no, there is no painwork warranty - apparently it is just mechanical........

2: possibly

3:as you say - Definately not!

C

Contrary to my recent post....
The way I understand the single track article is that the warranty is a seperate contract which is between the purchaser/owner and the manufacturer. The dealer acts as an "agent" of the manufacturer. So it would appear that you do need to persue the maunufacturer and/or find an "agent" who is sympathetic and will champion your cause.

In my case the dealer I am using did not supply the bike but they are dealing with the warranty issue. Apparantly they will do the work and then bill DUK for the parts and labour.

Unoffically I have heard of a number of Ducati dealers who are currently dealing with similar issues. DUK and the dealers are not stupid they can see the bigger picture and they know there is a problem and they are rectifying the faults, IMO they have therefore acknowledged the problems and have set a precedent by agreeing to fix other bikes.
You should be able to state this precedent and get the work done.

Dont give up

Whilst Ducati UK are well aware of the wide spread nature of this problem it is not true that they are sorting it out for every body. I've had my bike photographed by a Ducati rep and they have refused to do anything. I've complained to Peter Brooking (Marketing and Aftersales manager) and got nowhere. This was his response -

"I am sorry that you are unhappy with our decision regarding the corrosion on
your machine. As you may be aware, as requested by the MOC, I made a
statement some time ago on behalf of Ducati UK relating to this subject. I
would like to re-iterate our position by quoting from the statement:

'As a general rule, in common with other manufacturers, corrosion is not
covered by the official warranty. As you will appreciate, there are numerous
reasons why corrosion may occur, including exposure to high levels of salt
during winter, damaged components, lack of care by previous owners and so
forth'.

Having reviewed the photographs taken by our Area Manager, we are of the
opinion that your machine appears to have been subject to high levels of
road salt that have not been removed before damage has occurred.

Accordingly, we are not in a position to replace the relevant parts under
the terms of the manufacturer warranty."

Obviously I am very annoyed about this. As stated in my earlier post I don't ride my bike in weather conditions where it would have been "subject to high levels of road salt". I am now considering legal action.

I dont think it is.
Apologies for sounding like a barrack room lawyer but...
The point is that the paint has flaked off. The paint is not just there to look good it is there to form a barrier against corrosion, otherwise why paint anything. IMO the paint is not up to the job and is not fit for purpose.
Once the paint has gone then you will naturally get corrosion.

So, in a nutshell the effect is corrosion the cause is flakey paint.

Well for my tuppence.
1. I agree with slug - your contract was with them therefore they should sort it. Regardless of authorised or not.
2. Paint is both protective and is a decoration (otherwise we'd all be riding darks and chromos), to go on record saying their warranty does not cover paint is neither here nor there. Consumer Protection Act 1994 as amended should sort you out there.
3. It's amazing just how quick companies act when they receive a summons to the small claims court.

Humpf!

Yeah, forget the warranty, it seems to be irrelevant in this case.
Work on the subject from consumer law... if the dealer you bought it from says you have to go to Ducati, remind him that he's responible to you and Ducati are responsible to him - it's the law! Also, if you're quoted that "fit for purpose" crap, you might want to suggest your dealer gets up to date on the Sale and Supply of Goods Act (1979) cos it was ammended by the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1996) to remove "fit for purpose" and replace it with "merchantable quality", and merchantable quality includes cosmetics cos that's why you bought a monser instead of a c90!!

As Slug says, the paint's primary function is a corrosion barrier, and road salt shouldn't do anything harmful to it.

This falkey paint syndrome seems to be certainly a manufaturing fault. If the dealer don't want to play the game just invite them for a drink in the small claims court, it's a dead easy process and it probably won't even get that far... solicitors are not allowed so there's no danger of being beaten by the dealers expensive know-it-all lawer, the case just gets discussed with an arbitrator. A bit of research and a few quotes from comsumer acts will almost certainly keep it out of court though...

good luck with it!

nb

Where's Nik the Brief of this thread? who are the other lawyers here? i can't be the only one. are they all riding harleys??

don't let the warranty confuse things over the statutory rights and Sale of Goods and Services legislation. Think of it this way, you could buy a car/bike without a warranty, it wouldnt mean you had no rights - they supplement then. So, i've not seen any examples of the damage described but i would think that corrosion and flaking are quite easy to tell the difference between.

small claims court is a good idea. not entirely right to say solicitors 'aren't allowed' in there tho. they don't get PAID in small claims court by the opponent if they win. so, most don't use them. a company might but a company is also more likely just to buy off the claim.

i'm thinking, small claims court, get a report from a reputable mechanic to provide evidence of what has caused the problem if not too expensive, photos, witness evidence of reputable friends to testify to the sort of conditions in which you ride - should do it. you might not need to do all that tho. seriously, check your home, credit card, bike etc insurance to see if you have legal expenses insurance. they often give 30 mins free phone advice. used wisely that time can be very valuable.

ck and ak seemed to know the year of engine this affected. do you guys have more info on this? an article somewhere or something?

Or you could just put the matter into the hands of your local trading standards complaining about the dealer and Ducati.
Ducati will be on a home authority scheme which means that any other compalints will also be known about by their local office and channelled through them and they may be able to resolve this for you. Trading standards officers are a great source of free advice too.

If that fails then the small claims court is the place to go.

Remember if any of it was paid on credit card or HP, then they are also liable and make sure you drag those companies into it just to **** the dealer off. The dealer sells loads of stuff via credit card and HP and will not want them witholding monies due to him because there is a potential claim so drag them in for the hell of it.