Important: Please Read!

[slob]

I'll try and answer everything that's been raised so far, let me know if you feel I've missed anything, sorry my mind is so chaotic:

Lars(stopintime) makes a good point about the DOC affiliation. I feel it probably mostly works very well for Italian clubs, where small regional clubs are tied to their local dealer, less well for the rest of the World, especially in the UK where we have national clubs that predate any factory affilation.
For example I received an email notification of the #werideasone initiative, which was meant to get as many DOC members as possible down to their local dealer for a 'global rideout', 48 hours before the event was due to take place, hardly enough time to get anyone anywhere! presumably because I'm not a Facebook user?
However I'm aware that we have quite a few members who are not active on the forum but love to go to WDW and really look forward to any annual offical trinkets.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out that we've never restricted forum access to UK Monster Owners, the contribution of stopintime and many others makes this forum a richer place, even if he's not technically a UKMOC member. The same goes for pillion passengers, I know I wouldn't be without mine! When members have sold their Monsters, I've always said I'd give them a year's grace with DOC affiliation, it's amazing how often owners regret the sale and come back with another Monster shortly afterwards.

Also, tied to the myDucati website is a DOC management platform, which allows management of affiliation/memberships etc. and has a handy mailout tool for communication with members but has never been open to anyone but the Presidents, making a mockery of the VP and Secretary roles as defined by DMH.
I am on a global whatsapp group of DOC presidents and this is a regular gripe recently, but is as nothing to the name change thing, it's a real pain for most clubs, most of whom have paid memberships and are effectively companies with trademarks financial requirements.
Will our fellow DOC: Ducati Owners Club GB, just be know as 'GB' from now on (after nearly 40 years!).
The Scottish club dropped affilation earlier this year, they were the only other free to join DOC in the UK.
I figured we were better working with DMH than independently, although I feel the nature of the relationship has been declining since 2012. We'd always had a very good relationship with DUK although I haven't met the new CEO since Tim left.
As I said in the OP I don't feel it's my place to make the call on how 'we' go forward as a club, as I walk out of the door, but I know what my gut feeling is right now!

I agree with Lars and MrsC about Facebook being totally unsuitable for running a club, certainly things like technical info would disappear into 'digital soup' and never be findable again. Never mind about my general feelings about Facebook, I can't believe anyone would still want to be on there in light of the revelations in the last few years, no matter how convenient it is. Its mission is to replace every forum and other means of communication and silo off its slice of the Internet for the enrichment of Mr Suka-burg but for ease of use, Facebook is more or less the benchmark for whatever forum software a club uses I'm afraid.

I've always tried to keep the forum free, as it was when I joined in 2003, this has meant Pedro and I do the forum support and our hosting provider (another former member) takes care of the Server itself. It also had the bonus of meaning we didn't go the same way as at least three clubs I can think of, that imploded due to financial 'irregularities'.
This also presents a potential pitfall for a subscription/donation model, as soon as payment is involved complete financial openness is an absolute must have.

cont...

[slob]

...

I bought some alternate forum software (the same as that other channel that most of you are well aware of), stuck it on AWS and have tried migrating this forum's data to it a couple of times with varying degrees of success, in order to solve the broken picture upload issue that bugs the current forum as well as a few other issues, however repeated requests for anyone with relevant computer skills to share the admin burden have been met with no response whatsoever and tying myself to supporting a new system with little or no help was always a non-starter for me, especially as I quit two decades of working in IT because it was starting to make me very miserable indeed. I've also been very preoccupied with my recovery, which has to take precedence for me.
Lars is also right that over the years hosting photos has the potential to become an out of control expense, again I don't think that should be my call right now.

Yes Gary, we can set up polls for anything you like.

I inherited a small building society account from benson (who was joint President with Pedro before me) however this was almost useless, with no chequebook and no facility for internet banking, leading me to use my own bank account for money in/out. This is essentially just hosting costs plus the odd sundry expense. The building society has since stopped doing free club/charity accounts and I 'just' need to fill in the ridiculous international money laundering forms to get the balance out. It's spare change FFS. I am piecing together all the receipts etc. to work out which way the balance is owing, to me or the club. I will make the 'books' available and hand over any balance when I go.
I'll also hand over any freebies I've received from Ducati at WPMs etc, that I'm sitting on for when someone needs weekender raffle prizes etc. These tend to be end of line merchandise items that are left over when this year's stuff comes out.

I didn't specifically list others who have served as regional reps, weekender organisers and on the 'board', as I figured accidentally missing someone off might be more offensive than not naming everyone personally. They know who they are and are well aware that the more you put into the club, the more you get out!

Since my decision to stick with the DOC thing, we've been restricted to who we can advertise (DMH won't allow DOCs to advertise unoffical dealers or services they see as direct competition) so our hosting for 2022 is tied to DUK advertising. This means the club needs the three board members, at least to the end of the year, after that the club could return to whatever the collective membership wants. Otherwise the residual advertising money might need paying back and I'll just switch off the lights on my way out, frankly I'd have felt better about dying on a roadside near Aylesbury than doing that.

The many messages of support and sympathy I've received here and by email are heartwarming, it's not what this post is about. My previous attempts to stand down (2015 and 2017 IIRC) have invariably been met with 'you're doing a grand job, carry on', which I don't think has been good for the club in the long run. I have been progressively running out of momentum to take the UKMOC forward even before my accident. A club of mostly middle aged men, who are dying off with frightening regularity won't have a great future.
Despite the 'trellis purists', we need to welcome ALL Monster owners. I'm genuinely upset that I didn't get to test ride the latest generation of bikes, apparenty they're an absolute hoot. People almost always tend to resist change to some degree, get over it!

I also need to talk to DMH/DUK and find out what the process is for replacing the board members from their point of view, since I'm the one who signed the 2022 regs etc. ...assuming I'm not forced to take the 'nuclear option'.

Rob
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[Stinger101]

It makes a sad read Rob. Feels like the end of an era. You were there when I joined and became a friend of mine. That won't change for sure!
I love this little club and the forum, the get togethers' weekenders' etc. It's a really cool atmosphere. I don't give a chuff about any DOC affiliation or corporate BS. I would like to keep things 'here' between us all as it is now. Being in Warwickshire, there's very little UKMOC activity, that should change and Tracey & I don't mind looking at organising local club meets/rideouts etc if called upon.

Take care my friend, and hopefully catch you somewhere, sometime.

[Pedro]

My thoughts for what they’re worth…

Definitely need new leadership, the current team have been in post way too long and whilst I’ve got a lot out of the club over the years, I just don’t have the time now to put my heart and soul into it as much as it needs.

The whole name change thing is bloody ridiculous imho, we’re the UKMOC and should stay that way even if it means ditching the links to the factory. The returns for blindly following their demands aren’t worth the effort and the club identity is worth more. As far as revenue is concerned to run this show, then ditching DMH opens up the option for all the decent independent workshops to advertise, many of whom the members already use, especially with the older generation of bikes.

I’ve spoke to Rob recently and fully understand and support his position, especially when dealing with the aftermath of his crash and the lingering issues he’s dealing with. As has been said, the more you put in the more you get out so we need someone to step up and keep this great club alive and kicking in the future.

I still have my two monsters and will always be grateful for the club in terms of technical help but more so for the friends I’ve made on here, it really is valuable asset to many and so deserves to continue without DMH dictating how we run things in return for some cheap freebies.

Ped
Soon to be ex-VP

[slob]

tick tock, tick tock …

[Albie]

I hope all goes well. I'm glad to be keeping the UKMOC name if we can. Im not fussed anymore about corporate just like a friendly forum with a good stream of knowledge. What I have learnt over the last 19 years has been most helpful and that's what is the club needs to keep. What I would like though is the slight upgrade of the threads usefulness in maybe having just a like button rather than having to write a 10 letter comment. Obviously that old picture thing but I cope with that.
Is there any candidates out there. Have we also still got county reps covered.
I'm definately not standing not that I would win but I see plenty of good people on here done fine jobs over the last few years can have my vote .

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks for the update Rob , and clearing one or two things up.

I think I now understand how the DOC affiliation effects the way advertising is sold for the forum. Obviously they would only want the company's interests promoted.
You say that leaving DOC would open the options to seek advertising from independents and so forth, I wonder if DUK and authorised dealers would be prohibited by Ducati from sponsoring the forum after we left? The situation with Moto Rapido might change too as far as UKMOC was concerned regarding discount and their ability to advertise on the forum?
(They are and would remain my favourite dealer anyway.)
Would you be prepared to say on here how much the forum costs to run per annum?

There does seem to be overwhelming support for leaving DOC at the moment and I think that is what is going to happen. Even so it would seem that we need at least a caretaker committee of the DOC required officers until the current affiliation expires.
I for one would not want to stand for President under their guidelines (or rules?) Particularly the one about the President having legal responsibility.. That's just way too heavy! Clubs usually protect themselves from that sort of bs with larger committees, insurance and legal advice paid for from subscriptions.

Is there a date of expiry for the current affiliation?

Looking beyond DOC.
The way I see it, we need an officer to ensure that the forum is sponsored from advertising.
An officer who is capable of maintaining the IT aspect of the forum to ensure it runs at least as well as it does currently.
A figurehead for the club, but not necessarily called President nor necessarily regarded as in charge of anything, just making sure that everything is running smoothly and calling elections for new officers when they are due.
I'm sure a new constitution will soon evolve with as easy going a feel that reflects the way UKMOC already feels.

[Pedro]

Gazza

You need someone with some authority, in the distant past we’ve had to sort out spats between members, step in when members felt victimised and remove a few people all together for being tw*ts and looking to start trouble all the time. Not a pleasant side but necessary all the same.

As for the MR discount, that’s more Wilf and his team being supportive and the relationship they had with Terry (Fatbloke and forum founder), continuing through me and to Rob. I very much doubt DMH either know or care about the discount they kindly provide.

It’s disappointing to see a lack of people offering to step up unless Rob knows more than I, many are happy to benefit from this forum but it seems they’ve unwilling to put anything back in.

Rob - perhaps a new thread specifically for volunteers/nominations may prompt so action?

Ped

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Gazza

It’s disappointing to see a lack of people offering to step up unless Rob knows more than I, many are happy to benefit from this forum but it seems they’ve unwilling to put anything back in.

I think that's a little harsh.

I speak from experience of running events for boat clubs and a pre-internet owners club.

Everyone on here really appreciates the work that's put in by the team, and because of that realises exactly how much time and effort goes into it. And how hard it can be at times.

That in turn means that nearly everyone who would like to be able to step up worries or knows they just don't have enough time and possibly the ability to do the role justice like you guys.

I'd love to have a crack at it, but when family, work, and other commitments have to take priority I wouldn't feel I was giving the club my best or full commitment, so am just not prepared to let everyone down. I'm sure many feel that way and admire you guys commitment more because of it.
In a few years when I'm properly retired I'd possibly consider it, but then probably wouldn't be of the correct age or demographic to take the club forward.

What's needed is a team who are able to reliably commit the time, energy, and enthusiasm to do the roles justice on a regular basis.
You guys have been great at it, but in reality your posts in this thread have actually just proved how hard it is to maintain around normal life.

Oh, and sod DMH and their affiliation rules, it appears like too much grief with too little benefit. Of course MR will continue to give discount to members whatever the situation.

Totally agree Nasher, having tackled the weekenders recently I know what commitment looks like so really appreciate the team for the hard work they do all year round ,work ,family and life in general will get in the way meaning full commitment is not possible for many…… and I fear I am already the wrong demographic .

A team that can share out the burden is required, without the constraints and dictates of the increasingly corporate DMH, we are an owners club by definition so we stay UKMOC in my opinion and wave goodbye to affiliation. What have the Romans ever done for us…..Wsb meet and greet at Donington…….discount entry into the museum……support with some freebies and raffle prizes at the 2019 weekender…….annual membership pack…….but apart from these

This is a great place to be and long May it remain so, I am with Gazza, the free and easy feel is the way to go, the T & C ,s for the current positions are way too heavy.

I am more than happy to be part of a new era Pedro,(indeed I have already spoken with Rob and picked up the baton once more for a Weekender next year) but as an independent UKMOC .

[Pedro]

Nasher & Moco

My post was intended to spur a reaction not to criticise, I’m well aware of the time needed but as they say, a job shared is a job halved, spreading the load between more people will make it much easier

Ped

[slob]

Not really harsh, very blunt maybe. However this is the reason we decided we had to stand down en-masse, otherwise anyone remaining in post will continue to be tied to the forum indefinitely. As I said earlier, we’ve tried to step down before and are invariably met with no further candidates to be part of this team and a ‘carry on you’re doing a great job’, even though I don’t think we were. Liz stepped up to provide the third required person, when JP sold his Monster and started a family, despite being heavily tied to running a (successful) Classic TT team, serving on the Calne Bike Meet commitee, her job and her family commitments.

Yes, running a weekender is a huge task to take on… which is why Pedro and I (and the club founder, fatbloke, before us) never got involved in the nuts and bolts of running them… but always one with an end in sight, the club/forum would go on, with or without a weekender. Part of this is an endictment of my poor leadership skills (You see, I haven’t been doing such a great job after all, have I) having allowed us to get to this place at all, it was very nearly precipitated three years ago but for my reasonable level of fitness, an Arai RX7 and a Dainese back protector!

To focus on immediate issues: FWIW I agree about the name change and splitting with DMH and their ill conceived edict but assuming a team of three can be found to stand ‘til end of December that can wait and is just serving as a distraction. I listed it in the interests of full disclosure, so potential candidates wouldn’t feel ambushed. Then from January the team/commitee can be whatever size and shape it decides on.

With this in mind I strongly suggest any potential candidates contact me secretly to avoid becoming ‘the default position’ for everyone else. Otherwise the clock is still ticking like an allegory for global warming…

[slob]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Thanks for the update Rob , and clearing one or two things up.

I think I now understand how the DOC affiliation effects the way advertising is sold for the forum. Obviously they would only want the company's interests promoted.
You say that leaving DOC would open the options to seek advertising from independents and so forth, I wonder if DUK and authorised dealers would be prohibited by Ducati from sponsoring the forum after we left? The situation with Moto Rapido might change too as far as UKMOC was concerned regarding discount and their ability to advertise on the forum?
(They are and would remain my favourite dealer anyway.)
Would you be prepared to say on here how much the forum costs to run per annum?

Currently we pay under £600/year for hosting.

As I've already said: Pedro and I have taken care of all the forum support since 2007, so no costs there although that might change depending on who takes over. We have a few other ancilliary costs such as domain name registration which so far has been taken care of through small profits over the years on t-shirts, stickers and slight overpayment of postage for the DOC trinkets (I just rounded up to make sure I wasn't going to money to people who don't understand paypal fees, many people overpay a bit to support the forum anyway) As I said earlier, I'm piecing together all the receipts still.

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

There does seem to be overwhelming support for leaving DOC at the moment and I think that is what is going to happen. Even so it would seem that we need at least a caretaker committee of the DOC required officers until the current affiliation expires.
I for one would not want to stand for President under their guidelines (or rules?) Particularly the one about the President having legal responsibility.. That's just way too heavy! Clubs usually protect themselves from that sort of bs with larger committees, insurance and legal advice paid for from subscriptions.

Is there a date of expiry for the current affiliation?

Ducati UK is a direct subsiduary of Ducati Motor Holding, so yes! and we're currently tied to that until 23:59 31/12/22. I thought I'd made the need for a caretaker committee abundantly clear in the OP? All the bureaucracy makes no legal difference, the CEO is sill responsible under Italian law, remember Frank Williams going to court over Ayrton Senna's death at Monza?

cont ...

[slob]

...

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Looking beyond DOC.
The way I see it, we need an officer to ensure that the forum is sponsored from advertising.
An officer who is capable of maintaining the IT aspect of the forum to ensure it runs at least as well as it does currently.
A figurehead for the club, but not necessarily called President nor necessarily regarded as in charge of anything, just making sure that everything is running smoothly and calling elections for new officers when they are due.
I'm sure a new constitution will soon evolve with as easy going a feel that reflects the way UKMOC already feels.

We’ve so far avoided excessive formality in favour of a kind of benevolent autocracy, along with (mostly) light touch moderation, to keep the forum friendly and conflict free. Remember the forum started as two guys running an email list until it got too big to manage that way, Can you imagine trying to email your Norfolk group if you had over a hundred people on it?
I've tried hard to 'keep things the way they were', clearly that's now backfiring. I could never have managed commitees, written constitutions, big finance etc. and feel they'll be the death of the easy-going club and forum anyway.

I think you'd want at least 2 IT people going forward, in case something untoward happened to one of them.

The other downside of not keeping it all free is that as soon as annual turnover hits £2000, you need to register as a charity with HMRC etc etc.
Bear in mind that other forums might be a big commercial IT hosting company posing as several little bike forums, you'll find an implausibly similar but 'skinned' format for other makes and models? You pay up or you see an awful lot of inline advertising!

Good luck calling elections... I've lost well two hours to this thread already this morning but not seen any interest in taking the reigns from anyone :-(

[stopintime]

Can you point at two(three?) people and tell them they've just been elected? I've done that a few times and to my surprise it works.