Searching for a bracket to fit a high mounted exhaust

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Does this mean I need to get longer bolts to accommodate the spacers ?

Yes it does.
And they're specials so not easy to obtain.
There are other ways to make up a composite fastener though.
I believe Gazza looked into this a few years back but I couldn't find the old thread.
Maybe he'll be along with more info presently.

[Mr Gazza]

Ah! just seen this.
The short answer is that you might not need longer bolts, but it's something to check for sure.

The left side engine bolts are a little longer than the right side ones due to the side stand bracket already holding the left hanger off a bit further. It's possible that you might not even have to space the left side bottom.
So if you need longer ones on the right, then it might be possible to get some left side ones. (trying not to call them left hand to avoid confusion, they are all RH thread.)
Moto Rapido would almost certainly be able to source those.
If requiring longer 8mm shoulder bolts for the upper mounts then there may still be hope, as early models used one shoulder bolt to fix an earth strap and had room for a nut on the end. Perhaps these are available too?

The reason I made up some specials was that I discovered a previous owner had improvised (I'm being generous here!) some shoulder bolts by winding some insulation tape round some standard bolts.. Thanks whoever you are!
I rather liked the idea of the top hat adapters that were sold by TPO at the time, but they were very expensive, more so to get them from the US and now not in business I think?

My answer was to buy some 25mm aluminium bar and get a mate to turn some up to my design.
They mimic the shoulder @ 12.5mm diameter x 19mm long with a through hole 10mm clearance for a standard M10 bolt.
The head mimics the cup washers found on the oil cooler and headlamp mounts.
I made the counterbores for low cap heads, but I'm now thinking of a redesign using countersunk as I can't find any Ti low heads the right size.

The upper ones are sized for M8, but the shoulder length and head remains the same.

I've just read that they should have washers under the shoulders, which makes a lot of sense, since the bearing surface is a mere 1mm wide. I'm thinking as I type that a full set of thick washers from my 25mm bar would be good, including a little counterbore to support the end of the shoulder/top hat.

If I do commission another set with countersinks instead of counter bores and with special washers, I'll make some drawings and pass them on.
I could measure up my originals anyway if anyone wants the dims. The original drawings are held in cyber-limbo on a long inaccessible file!! Sorry.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Darren69

The spare set of Termignoni ones I had were sold back in 2017.

I think Spuggy had them but I don't see it on the thread.

Yup, I snagged those - scored a nice pair of Remus-branded DP high-level Titanium cans from Dirty (I think) and needed a fitting kit.

Originally Posted by Darren69

I don't even know if he is still around or has them.

I pop in from time-to-time to make sure you guys are behaving yourselves

I dragged the cans & fitting kit back over the pond and put them on the 2000 900Sie I bought here...

Originally Posted by Darren69

AFAIK they were only sold with the exhaust kits.

Yes. And there's a very, very, good reason that you got a DP ECU with those kits. The 900ies, with those pipes but without the DP ECU, can barely keep themselves running below 2000 RPM. Ask me how I know...

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Ah! just seen this.
The short answer is that you might not need longer bolts, but it's something to check for sure.

The left side engine bolts are a little longer than the right side ones due to the side stand bracket already holding the left hanger off a bit further. It's possible that you might not even have to space the left side bottom.

Yeh, Mr Gazza is pretty much spot-on, as I recall (been a while).

Both the top mounts on the footrest hangers, left and right side, got longer shouldered bolts and a little 10mm(?) black anodized alloy doughnut spacer. Which I don't see on the parts diagram for the factory setup at all.

And the bottom mounts on the left side hanger (around the side stand) get a couple of thicker spacers - maybe 5-10mm from memory - and correspondingly longer bolts than original.

Otherwise there isn't room for the uplink pipes to clear between the swing arm and the hangers - they're fairly tight (like 2-3mm clearance) on the inside of the hanger when fitted.

I *thought* I remembered moving the bolts/spacers from the left bottom fittings to the right side, and installing the new, longer, spacers & bolts on the left. But glancing quickly at the bike, don't see spacers on the right side bottom fittings at all.

I'd be more than happy to measure the brackets and/or spacers. But can only give one side of the picture.

Oh, and I'm at least "fairly sure" that I have some used DP top brackets *somewhere* I bought off Flea Bay - but they never came with the longer bolts or the spacers (like that Ebay auction Dukedemo posted doesn't list them, even though the guy seems to think it's a "complete kit"). But realistically, don't hold your breath - even though I'd be more than happy to pass them on, having moved a bunch of times since, I don't know what box they're in, much less which continent that's on...

[spuggy]

Yeh, take a look at this auction for an S4 DP high-level kit:

Ducati Monster M900 M400 S4 Termignoni Full Exhaust Muffler

Note the complete set of shouldered bolts & spacers?

IIRC, S4 kits were offered in 3 flavours:

-100 - Slip-ons & ECU
-200 - Slip-ons, DP airbox cover/K&N filter, ECU
-300 - Slip-ons, DP airbox cover/K&N filter, 50mm headers & ECU

All of the DP ECUs supplied with these kits had separate part #'s - eg unique for each kit. Presumably a different map flashed on it..

This apparently restored most of the power that the 916 lost from the 44mm (I think) headers that the factory used on the S4.

[Foggy]

Oh, and I'm at least "fairly sure" that I have some used DP top brackets *somewhere* I bought off Flea Bay

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, just going through it all now but I would be interested in the top brackets. If you can find them please send me details/photos to see if they fit. Cheers.

[Foggy]

Note the complete set of shouldered bolts & spacers?

Yes that’s really helpful thanks I can see the longer bolts. Don’t suppose you know how long they are ? The Ducati parts map has them on mine as Part No 77911181A but there are no specification details. Just need to check I am looking at the right ones and whether they will fit on the right hand side (with spacers).

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Yes that’s really helpful thanks I can see the longer bolts. Don’t suppose you know how long they are ? The Ducati parts map has them on mine as Part No 77911181A but there are no specification details. Just need to check I am looking at the right ones and whether they will fit on the right hand side (with spacers).

To be clear, the shouldered part of the bolts are identical. The ones that came with the kit for use with the spacers have a longer thread to accommodate the spacers.

I just faffed with the calipers. Without taking the hangers off to get a more accurate reading, I'm gonna stick with my initial guess of the spacers being 10mm thick. So the threads would be that much longer.

Heh. The Mk 1 eyeball - sometimes wildly wrong, but sometimes surprisingly accurate...

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, just going through it all now but I would be interested in the top brackets. If you can find them please send me details/photos to see if they fit. Cheers.

If I can find them, you're more than welcome to them, as I don't need them.

That said, let's set expectations: don't hold your breath. I don't know whether they're in the pile of bits I took off the M900 Dark in 2017 or in a box I shipped over (I have since moved several times).

I've been unable to find many things I've actively looked for since I moved. And once I found something in the garage working on the car, thought "ah, cool, I've been looking for that" - walked 15 ft to the bench whilst thinking about the primary task in order to put it down there - only to find my hand empty when I got there, with no idea WTF I put it. I haven't seen it since.. Getting old isn't for wimps.

Realistically, I could measure the DP brackets on the bike. You would only need rough sizings to duplicate them - because the bolt hole sizes/spacings are set by things you already have on your frame, where they bolt up.

[Foggy]

I understand mate don't worry, just trying to organise my own garage for the same reason. It's all for a winter project so I have time if you stumble across it. Thanks for your help.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by spuggy

To be clear, the shouldered part of the bolts are identical. The ones that came with the kit for use with the spacers have a longer thread to accommodate the spacer.

Yes of course that makes sense. From the detail supplied by you and Gaza it looks like I just need to duplicate the bolts from the left hand side for the right hand side with the spacers. Appreciate your help.

[Darren69]

Iirc the original S4 headers were something stupid small like 40mm. The full Termi is 45 headers to 50mm mid pipes and actually makes more power and more importantly more torque than the standard 916 did, thanks in part to the low head and the tangential manifold. Crazy baddass torque Monster really!?

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Yeh, take a look at this auction for an S4 DP high-level kit:

Ducati Monster M900 M400 S4 Termignoni Full Exhaust Muffler

Note the complete set of shouldered bolts & spacers?

IIRC, S4 kits were offered in 3 flavours:

Hey Spuggy, looking at the second photo where it shows the complete set of shouldered bolts, I assume the longer bolts are for the lower left hand side of the bracket. So do you reckon I just need two more of these for the lower right hand side ? Or will I also need longer bolts for the upper right hand side too to bring the bracket fully out evenly ? It's just that I was expecting the upper left hand side to have longer bolts too but it seems not from the photo.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Hey Spuggy, looking at the second photo where it shows the complete set of shouldered bolts, I assume the longer bolts are for the lower left hand side of the bracket. So do you reckon I just need two more of these for the lower right hand side ? Or will I also need longer bolts for the upper right hand side too to bring the bracket fully out evenly ? It's just that I was expecting the upper left hand side to have longer bolts too but it seems not from the photo.

Eh?
The photo shows 8 bolts and 8 spacers, no? The 4 shorter bolts are for the top mounts of the hanger, and the 4 longer ones are for the bottom. I forget what the two small spacers are for - seat lock, perhaps?

I'm confused why I don't seem to have that 8 bolts/spacers on the M900, but maybe I screwed up fitting it...

[Dukedesmo]

Are the shouldered bolts/spacers for relocating the footrests further out to allow them to clear the link pipes?

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Eh?
The photo shows 8 bolts and 8 spacers, no? The 4 shorter bolts are for the top mounts of the hanger, and the 4 longer ones are for the bottom. I forget what the two small spacers are for - seat lock, perhaps?

I'm confused why I don't seem to have that 8 bolts/spacers on the M900, but maybe I screwed up fitting it...

I could only see 2 long bolts but it could be an optical illusion from the photo. If you are saying there are 4 long bolts then that makes sense for the lower bolts on both sides. I was wondering though whether I needed longer bolts for the upper 2 bolts on each side to bring the complete bracket out evenly.