Forks & Upgrades? - Page 2

Flip · 14-08-2019, 09:33 PM

......Part 2

Obviously with my Monster I was in a slightly different situation to you in as much as I had the horrible Marzocchi forks rather than the more 'up-gradable' Showas you have fitted.

On my forks one leg controlled rebound and the other compression and like many forks of this type they operate using a sealed (kind of) cartridge and so Maxton junk all that and replace the lot with a proper cartridge of their own design.

Over the years of Monster ownership I had tried lots of different things and the final thing before sending them off was to buy a pair of 888 forks to fit (from our very own Natty actually).

However, after talking to Richard at Maxton we decided the best route was to use my existing Marzocchi's, fit them with the basic (adjustable rebound only) GP20 conversions- and sell on the 888 units. They also re-anodised the outer tubes making them look like new again.

After getting them fitted, I was and still am over the Moon with them and wished I had done it years earlier.

Maxton's service was great- always happy to advise should you need it- they may not be the cheapest and I am sure many, many people have their own thoughts and preferences which I am sure work for them.

Ya pays your money and takes ya choice!

slob · 15-08-2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

... I’ll see if I can find a link to some info on the shortcomings of stock Monster forks.

If you have time for a long read

http://www.thelasturl.net/ukmoc/Show...edit2_2011.pdf

originally posted by MonsterHPD on ducatimonsterforum but the original file share no longer exists http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/in...c=49759.5;wap2

stopintime · 15-08-2019, 11:18 AM

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/in...?topic=55303.0

Jez900ie · 15-08-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopintime

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/in...?topic=55303.0

Thanks to you & Slob! That was very interesting. My engineering skills are not up to that level though so it will be a "pro fix" for my forks.

I have ordered the front wheel lifter for my Abba stand, so I will be able to check out the forks to confirm the adjuster is there. It will be a useful thing to have too.

Flip · 15-08-2019, 08:23 PM

That is a great piece on engineering and perseverance but you have to weigh up not only personal ability to carry out the task but also how much time you actually want to dedicate to it Vs having a bike that can be ridden rather than constantly worked on.

For further information here are the basics of how Richard at Maxton described the issues I had with the standard (fully adjustable) Marzocchi forks on my 900:

As standard the (Marzocchi- can't speak for Showa) forks feel very notchy and harsh and kick off small bumps, this is because they have too much compression damping over small movements.

However, when you brake very hard you may be able to feel the forks bottom out, this is because there is not enough support in the compression damping over large movements. This is exaggerated when braking hard on a bumpy surface with each bump compounding the compression until eventually you would run out of travel.

The other problem with the damping is there is not enough rebound damping which means when you let go of the brake the forks spring back at you and the bike does not turn into the corner as well as it should, this also causes the bike to run wide out of a corner.

The springs inside the forks are actually too hard and Maxton fit softer springs to suit your rider weight and also to suit the type of riding you do.

The biggest improvement felt is from increasing the rebound damping to control the forks extension, reducing the compression damping over small bumps to stop the forks kicking off them and increasing it over large movements giving more support with the spring.

rac3r had a similar dilemma to this at the tail end of last year and again there were plenty of comments and opinions:

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ghlight=maxton

slob · 15-08-2019, 12:25 PM

thanks Lars

16-08-2019, 08:03 PM

Jez, this is an interesting thread, I am considering the same thing. I had in mind a visit to maxton at the start of the year for the north west group.i contacted Richard and arranging a visit is on the cards, fancy coming up for that one? You could see first hand what they do and talk to Richard about the improvements their upgrade can provide.

Jez900ie · 16-08-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moco1961

Jez, this is an interesting thread, I am considering the same thing. I had in mind a visit to maxton at the start of the year for the north west group.i contacted Richard and arranging a visit is on the cards, fancy coming up for that one? You could see first hand what they do and talk to Richard about the improvements their upgrade can provide.

Hi Moco1961

The thread has brought up some very interesting points and things to mull over. Its certainly giving me a better idea of how I get to what I want t from my suspension. This forum has so much knowledge & friendly folks.

I really must make it to one of your rides! Life has a habit of getting in the way of things but I hopefully will meet up at some point soon. It might not be at Maxton though as if the weather is fine mid week I will probably be there then. Then again with the rainy season seeming endless that could also change...

16-08-2019, 10:28 PM

Hi Jez,

It would be great if you can make it, how about bridge north on the 1st of September?

Just a heads up, Richard is at Caldwell this weekend then straight over to the island for the classics so won't be there next week, best phone before you make the trip.

Jez900ie · 17-08-2019, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moco1961

Hi Jez,

It would be great if you can make it, how about bridge north on the 1st of September?

Just a heads up, Richard is at Caldwell this weekend then straight over to the island for the classics so won't be there next week, best phone before you make the trip.

Of course Richard & most of the Maxton boys will be away for the races. I didn't think about that! Thanks.

Jez900ie · 17-08-2019, 08:26 AM

Does anyone think S4 & S4R forks are:

Significantly better than my Showas (maybe they are the same)?
Bolt on in a relatively straight swap?
An upgrade worth doing depending on cost?

slob · 17-08-2019, 11:09 AM

Both should bolt straight in. 50/54mm tops and the same spindle size.
They may be over-sprung, since the water cooled bikes are a little heavier but I’m not sure.
As far as I’m aware they will both have the same poor valving issue as your forks.
The S4R has TiN coated stanchions, which in theory are better are than the plain old chrome on S4/your current forks, whether you’d notice any difference is debateable.
Probably not worth changing.
New oil is probably the best thing you could do for old forks (on a budget)

Jez900ie · 17-08-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Both should bolt straight in. 50/54mm tops and the same spindle size.
They may be over-sprung, since the water cooled bikes are a little heavier but I’m not sure.
As far as I’m aware they will both have the same poor valving issue as your forks.
The S4R has TiN coated stanchions, which in theory are better are than the plain old chrome on S4/your current forks, whether you’d notice any difference is debateable.
Probably not worth changing.
New oil is probably the best thing you could do for old forks (on a budget)

Thanks for that Slob.

I was thinking that if they were a better design, I might purchase some and have them upgraded instead of mine... Given your information, I now won't consider it.

Gotta love this site.

Dukedesmo · 18-08-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Both should bolt straight in. 50/54mm tops and the same spindle size.
They may be over-sprung, since the water cooled bikes are a little heavier but I’m not sure.

Most likely the springs will be stiffer.

I have 916 forks in my M900 that I had previously resprung for my weight when in the 916 but in the Monster they were super stiff and needed re-springing again - this due to a 916 being some 15-20kg heavier than a Monster, although a water cooled monster may not be so much heavier than an air cooled as the SBK?

As for the fitting, I needed to bore the top yoke from 50 to 53mm and sleeve the bottom yoke from 54 to 53mm.

Also needed 916 spindle and bar risers to allow clearance for the adjusters under the handlebars (compensated for the rise by using flat bars), if using a mech speedo you may also need the drive unit and new wheel bearings if it's not already 25mm?.

They work very well, especially because I also fitted radial calipers at the same time for better braking.

Jez900ie · 16-05-2021, 07:30 PM

An update.

As some of you might remember I bought a Nitron rear RT1 shock at the end of summer '19 from Zimbo here on the forum . It needed a service and a spring so by the time that was sent off to Nitron & returned there was no hurry to fit it as I'm a summer softie rider! LOL. Then Covid of course arrived and as my little Suzuki Ts185ER was newly refurbed, the little riding I did last year was on that.

Finally I've just had it fitted. My first ride out with it was today and I am pleased to say that the difference is a revelation and well worth paying for. The bike simply sits properly on the road now and the overly stiff ride is totally gone. Now of course it may be in part due to this shock having the correct spring for my weight, and also it is properly set up with sag etc, but still this shock -as recommended by several here thanks Flip!- works for me.

I also had a slipper clutch fitted which was another (different) forum purchase. I really like the dry clutch sound, so having one of these with the half billet cover is a great bit of fun & bling. Now the unexpected bonus is my clutch is now as light as any I've ever had on any bike. My standard one was typical, doable but heavy and made in town stop start somewhat irksome. Those days are now well & truly over!

All the above was done together with new belts, pads & oil change. The bike really feels like it's brand new, which considering its 19 years old & coming up to 40K isn't too shabby. After not riding it for so long, the deep sound and the powerful engine were wonderful to enjoy again.

I know everyone says it, but I really can't imagine ever parting with this bike.

14-08-2019, 09:33 PM	#1
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	......Part 2 Obviously with my Monster I was in a slightly different situation to you in as much as I had the horrible Marzocchi forks rather than the more 'up-gradable' Showas you have fitted. On my forks one leg controlled rebound and the other compression and like many forks of this type they operate using a sealed (kind of) cartridge and so Maxton junk all that and replace the lot with a proper cartridge of their own design. Over the years of Monster ownership I had tried lots of different things and the final thing before sending them off was to buy a pair of 888 forks to fit (from our very own Natty actually). However, after talking to Richard at Maxton we decided the best route was to use my existing Marzocchi's, fit them with the basic (adjustable rebound only) GP20 conversions- and sell on the 888 units. They also re-anodised the outer tubes making them look like new again. After getting them fitted, I was and still am over the Moon with them and wished I had done it years earlier. Maxton's service was great- always happy to advise should you need it- they may not be the cheapest and I am sure many, many people have their own thoughts and preferences which I am sure work for them. Ya pays your money and takes ya choice! __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

15-08-2019, 08:23 PM	#5
Flip Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Beachtown Bike: M900 Posts: 2,188	That is a great piece on engineering and perseverance but you have to weigh up not only personal ability to carry out the task but also how much time you actually want to dedicate to it Vs having a bike that can be ridden rather than constantly worked on. For further information here are the basics of how Richard at Maxton described the issues I had with the standard (fully adjustable) Marzocchi forks on my 900: As standard the (Marzocchi- can't speak for Showa) forks feel very notchy and harsh and kick off small bumps, this is because they have too much compression damping over small movements. However, when you brake very hard you may be able to feel the forks bottom out, this is because there is not enough support in the compression damping over large movements. This is exaggerated when braking hard on a bumpy surface with each bump compounding the compression until eventually you would run out of travel. The other problem with the damping is there is not enough rebound damping which means when you let go of the brake the forks spring back at you and the bike does not turn into the corner as well as it should, this also causes the bike to run wide out of a corner. The springs inside the forks are actually too hard and Maxton fit softer springs to suit your rider weight and also to suit the type of riding you do. The biggest improvement felt is from increasing the rebound damping to control the forks extension, reducing the compression damping over small bumps to stop the forks kicking off them and increasing it over large movements giving more support with the spring. rac3r had a similar dilemma to this at the tail end of last year and again there were plenty of comments and opinions: http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/s...ghlight=maxton __________________ You're perfect, yes, it's true- But without me you're only you!

17-08-2019, 08:26 AM	#11
Jez900ie Pleasantly surprised! Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Stoke on Trent Bike: M900ie Posts: 780	Does anyone think S4 & S4R forks are: Significantly better than my Showas (maybe they are the same)? Bolt on in a relatively straight swap? An upgrade worth doing depending on cost? __________________ Monsters don't hide under the bed, they sleep inside the shed Last edited by Jez900ie; 17-08-2019 at 08:37 AM..

17-08-2019, 11:09 AM	#12
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,716	Both should bolt straight in. 50/54mm tops and the same spindle size. They may be over-sprung, since the water cooled bikes are a little heavier but I’m not sure. As far as I’m aware they will both have the same poor valving issue as your forks. The S4R has TiN coated stanchions, which in theory are better are than the plain old chrome on S4/your current forks, whether you’d notice any difference is debateable. Probably not worth changing. New oil is probably the best thing you could do for old forks (on a budget) Last edited by slob; 17-08-2019 at 11:11 AM..

16-05-2021, 07:30 PM	#15
Jez900ie Pleasantly surprised! Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Stoke on Trent Bike: M900ie Posts: 780	An update. As some of you might remember I bought a Nitron rear RT1 shock at the end of summer '19 from Zimbo here on the forum . It needed a service and a spring so by the time that was sent off to Nitron & returned there was no hurry to fit it as I'm a summer softie rider! LOL. Then Covid of course arrived and as my little Suzuki Ts185ER was newly refurbed, the little riding I did last year was on that. Finally I've just had it fitted. My first ride out with it was today and I am pleased to say that the difference is a revelation and well worth paying for. The bike simply sits properly on the road now and the overly stiff ride is totally gone. Now of course it may be in part due to this shock having the correct spring for my weight, and also it is properly set up with sag etc, but still this shock -as recommended by several here thanks Flip!- works for me. I also had a slipper clutch fitted which was another (different) forum purchase. I really like the dry clutch sound, so having one of these with the half billet cover is a great bit of fun & bling. Now the unexpected bonus is my clutch is now as light as any I've ever had on any bike. My standard one was typical, doable but heavy and made in town stop start somewhat irksome. Those days are now well & truly over! All the above was done together with new belts, pads & oil change. The bike really feels like it's brand new, which considering its 19 years old & coming up to 40K isn't too shabby. After not riding it for so long, the deep sound and the powerful engine were wonderful to enjoy again. I know everyone says it, but I really can't imagine ever parting with this bike. __________________ Monsters don't hide under the bed, they sleep inside the shed Last edited by Jez900ie; 16-05-2021 at 08:05 PM..

15-08-2019, 11:18 AM	#3
stopintime Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Oslo Bike: S2r Posts: 428	http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/in...?topic=55303.0

15-08-2019, 12:25 PM	#6
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,716	thanks Lars

16-08-2019, 08:03 PM	#7
Moco1961 Guest Posts: n/a	Jez, this is an interesting thread, I am considering the same thing. I had in mind a visit to maxton at the start of the year for the north west group.i contacted Richard and arranging a visit is on the cards, fancy coming up for that one? You could see first hand what they do and talk to Richard about the improvements their upgrade can provide.

16-08-2019, 10:28 PM	#9
Moco1961 Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Jez, It would be great if you can make it, how about bridge north on the 1st of September? Just a heads up, Richard is at Caldwell this weekend then straight over to the island for the classics so won't be there next week, best phone before you make the trip.