New S2R Owner - Your tech advice appreciated.

Glawster · 08-01-2022, 07:39 PM

Hi Guys. First post here – I’m Derek from Cheltenham.
I’ve had a few Ducatis in the past, but not a Monster. In order of ownership my previous Dukes have been…
1958 200 Elite
1978 860 GTS
1993 750SS
2008 GT1000
1971 250MK3
1979 900GTS
1999 996 BP
In recent times I’ve switched more to old Guzzis and I find them a lot easier to live with and more suited to my level of mechanical competence! Anyway, a few weeks ago my son passed his bike test and was keen to own a Monster or Speed Triple. I’m a big fan of Hinckley triples, but we thought a 2 valve Monster would be more suitable, being light weight and more modest power.
This week we bought a 2006 S2R800. It’s a kind of half share arrangement where I buy, maintain and clean it. Tom’s input will be riding. The bike has done 25k miles and has plenty of service history – most recently by Mike Dawson Racing in Walton on Thames. It looked relatively unmolested (I don’t like aftermarket bling) in the pouring rain on Tuesday, but it’s only when you take a closer look that the bodges become apparent!
So far I’ve been mainly cleaning the years of grime from it. Some observations:
- The tank release clip is difficult to release. I’m guessing that the plastic tank has swelled with ethanol and the tank is now longer than it should be?
- The engine has been part painted – it would appear with silver Artex applied with a yard brush. Bit of a mess, but I don’t want to strip the engine unless it’s got a fault.
- Ordered 41mm and 46mm sockets for the rear wheel. There’s no tool kit so I guess I’ll also need the C spanner for adjusting the chain?
- Ordered new Michelin Pilot Power tyres. I had these on the GT1000 so I’m hoping they will be suitable. I just rode it round the block and it really felt vague at the front end. I’m hoping this is due to the worn front tyre. The headraces have been replaced so I hope they are correctly fitted.
- A full service including valve check and belts was done by MD Racing in Oct 18. Only 900 miles covered since then. I’ve replaced the oil and filter. The belts (branded Ducati) look brand new. I guess you’re going to tell me to change them though?
- I thought I’d take off the exhaust system and polish it up. Hmmm – this is going to be a problem. Of the 4 head studs it looks like only one of them has an undamaged nut fitted. A second has a rounded off nut and the other 2 have nothing at all, but could have been tack welded in place. For the moment I’ll leave them alone, but my questions are…
- The studs look like M8 x 1.25 thread?
- How hard are they to remove?
- Will they come out with the engine in the frame? The inside one on the back cylinder looks quite challenging.
- The number plate carrier and reflector bracket are very corroded and I don’t think they will survive blasting prior to powder coating. If anyone has removed these items and doesn’t need them I’d be happy to take them off your hands!
More questions to follow no doubt, but I’m very happy to take your advice on these points.
Cheers, Derek

IMG_0910 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

IMG_0905 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

DSC_2129 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

Jam911 · 08-01-2022, 07:54 PM

Welcome to the forum.
You've come to the right place for knowledge.
It looks better in the pics than your description.
Enjoy

bigredduke · 08-01-2022, 08:58 PM

Liking the look of the Parilla in the background. Details sil vous plait?

Nickj · 08-01-2022, 10:08 PM

The studs look like M8 x 1.25 thread?
- How hard are they to remove?
- Will they come out with the engine in the frame? The inside one on the back cylinder looks quite challenging.

I think that they might be..
In order,
depends how bad they are, on mine they were so corroded that the studs on 3 came out with the nuts. The other was replaced as it was getting a bit thin and looked like a 3yr old could snap it.
Not the easiest at the rear but do-able. It's easier putting them back than getting them off.

Motor casings paint .. PIA best done with the motor out so you can clean it up properly and prime. I've always used an acid etch primer on this, usually weld through only because I usually have a few cans on hand BUT anything that will stick to bare cleaned metals.

350TSS · 09-01-2022, 12:15 AM

Exhaust studs - wire brush the exposed thread to clear any rust on the threads (small wire brush on a Dremel can be useful here) Then daily treatment with a 50/50 mix of acetone and diesel for a week then heat the stud as close as you can to red heat ( a creme brulee butane kitchen torch is great here about £6 on ebay) in the hope that the stud comes cleanly out of the head. With a very good fitting socket try tightening a fraction first to see if you can break the rust bond between the nut and the stud or stud and head or even between the nut and the flange then reheat and reapply the magic solution then try loosening. If it moves re-tighten then re-loosen - repeat, repeat, repeat in small increments. Bloody difficult to fit a socket to the rear head exhaust studs, maybe need to sacrifice the ring spanner end of a combination spanner and grind the outside until it fits between the exhaust pipe and the nut.
If it does not move, try carefully splitting the nut with a small slitting disc on a Dremel, the stud will need replacing anyway but you want as much stud showing as possible to get the remains out of the head.
If the stud still does not want to move you can (after disconnecting battery and earth leads to the frame) weld another nut onto the recalcitrant stud. This often works as the weld heat transfers down the stud to the thread in the head and breaks the corrosion bond.
Good luck

Blah blah · 09-01-2022, 12:55 PM

Welcome to another S2r 800, red with white wheels would have been my preferred choice but I couldn't turn down the one I bought...(bit like my 748!)

The tank does swell and it makes it difficult to get off (they all do that) and I run Michelins on mine as they suit it quite well in my opinion (even before I did all the other bits to mine, I destroyed the chicken strips!)

Stock suspension is a bit 'budget' but can be improved, any evidence of the fork oil being changed?

Glawster · 09-01-2022, 07:24 PM

Thanks for your advice on the exhaust studs. To be honest it looks like someone has already tried to remove them with mole grips and resorted to welding them to the flanges. Anyway, I'll get some new studs and consider my approach. I have a good friend with a boat building yard with good engineering facilities, so I think I'll get his opinion.

Quote:

Liking the look of the Parilla in the background. Details sil vous plait?

The Moto Parilla is a 1955 Turismo Special 175cc with the high cam engine. I bought it as a first lockdown project and it's still work in progress. Very decorative though!

DSC_1883 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

Dave G · 09-01-2022, 10:12 PM

The rear header nuts are a real pain to remove and refit, I had to use a flexible extension and narrow walled socket. It would be easier to remove everything behind it but that’s not always feasible, the nuts should be copper ( I’ve only just discovered that myself) so should come off with brute force, new ones aren’t expensive, can’t say about the studs though.
The tank expanding is a headache, take it off and dry it if possible, mine is similar, it still fits but is tricky, I bought a cheap replacement tank with damage as a temp tank while mine is dried out.
Remove the whole exhaust and polish it while the bike is being prepped, it makes a huge difference to the overall look. If possible look out for a cat bypass pipe, it makes more difference to the noise than aftermarket pipes and is totally road legal.

mickj · 10-01-2022, 10:48 AM

Welcome to the forum Derek.

I had an 860GTS in the 80's, another bike I should never have sold.

Glawster · 10-01-2022, 03:05 PM

Yes I noticed on the Stein Dinse website that the exhaust nuts are copper. Should make them easy to remove. I'm just going to park that job for the time being though as my son will be very pissed off if dismantle his new bike so he can't use it. 46mm socket arrived today and I was relieved to find that the rear wheel nut was not over tightened, which I know can be a problem. Just waiting for Blackcircles to deliver the tyres.

Mick - Yes, the GTS is a good bike. I had a brand new one in 1978 for which I paid a discounted price of £1,299! I bought a basket case in 2014 and it turned out quite well. In the end though I sold it to Made in Italy and got a Guzzi V7 Sport as I'd always fancied one.

free picture hosting

mickj · 11-01-2022, 10:28 AM

Thanks for the picture Glawster, I now feel worse

bigredduke · 12-01-2022, 07:46 PM

The Parilla is a lovely looking bike, congratulations!

08-01-2022, 07:39 PM	#1
Glawster Registered User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Cheltenham Bike: Other Not a Ducati Posts: 3	New S2R Owner - Your tech advice appreciated. Hi Guys. First post here – I’m Derek from Cheltenham. I’ve had a few Ducatis in the past, but not a Monster. In order of ownership my previous Dukes have been… 1958 200 Elite 1978 860 GTS 1993 750SS 2008 GT1000 1971 250MK3 1979 900GTS 1999 996 BP In recent times I’ve switched more to old Guzzis and I find them a lot easier to live with and more suited to my level of mechanical competence! Anyway, a few weeks ago my son passed his bike test and was keen to own a Monster or Speed Triple. I’m a big fan of Hinckley triples, but we thought a 2 valve Monster would be more suitable, being light weight and more modest power. This week we bought a 2006 S2R800. It’s a kind of half share arrangement where I buy, maintain and clean it. Tom’s input will be riding. The bike has done 25k miles and has plenty of service history – most recently by Mike Dawson Racing in Walton on Thames. It looked relatively unmolested (I don’t like aftermarket bling) in the pouring rain on Tuesday, but it’s only when you take a closer look that the bodges become apparent! So far I’ve been mainly cleaning the years of grime from it. Some observations: - The tank release clip is difficult to release. I’m guessing that the plastic tank has swelled with ethanol and the tank is now longer than it should be? - The engine has been part painted – it would appear with silver Artex applied with a yard brush. Bit of a mess, but I don’t want to strip the engine unless it’s got a fault. - Ordered 41mm and 46mm sockets for the rear wheel. There’s no tool kit so I guess I’ll also need the C spanner for adjusting the chain? - Ordered new Michelin Pilot Power tyres. I had these on the GT1000 so I’m hoping they will be suitable. I just rode it round the block and it really felt vague at the front end. I’m hoping this is due to the worn front tyre. The headraces have been replaced so I hope they are correctly fitted. - A full service including valve check and belts was done by MD Racing in Oct 18. Only 900 miles covered since then. I’ve replaced the oil and filter. The belts (branded Ducati) look brand new. I guess you’re going to tell me to change them though? - I thought I’d take off the exhaust system and polish it up. Hmmm – this is going to be a problem. Of the 4 head studs it looks like only one of them has an undamaged nut fitted. A second has a rounded off nut and the other 2 have nothing at all, but could have been tack welded in place. For the moment I’ll leave them alone, but my questions are… - The studs look like M8 x 1.25 thread? - How hard are they to remove? - Will they come out with the engine in the frame? The inside one on the back cylinder looks quite challenging. - The number plate carrier and reflector bracket are very corroded and I don’t think they will survive blasting prior to powder coating. If anyone has removed these items and doesn’t need them I’d be happy to take them off your hands! More questions to follow no doubt, but I’m very happy to take your advice on these points. Cheers, Derek IMG_0910 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr IMG_0905 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr DSC_2129 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

08-01-2022, 10:08 PM	#4
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,207	The studs look like M8 x 1.25 thread? - How hard are they to remove? - Will they come out with the engine in the frame? The inside one on the back cylinder looks quite challenging. I think that they might be.. In order, depends how bad they are, on mine they were so corroded that the studs on 3 came out with the nuts. The other was replaced as it was getting a bit thin and looked like a 3yr old could snap it. Not the easiest at the rear but do-able. It's easier putting them back than getting them off. Motor casings paint .. PIA best done with the motor out so you can clean it up properly and prime. I've always used an acid etch primer on this, usually weld through only because I usually have a few cans on hand BUT anything that will stick to bare cleaned metals. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

09-01-2022, 12:15 AM	#5
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Exhaust studs - wire brush the exposed thread to clear any rust on the threads (small wire brush on a Dremel can be useful here) Then daily treatment with a 50/50 mix of acetone and diesel for a week then heat the stud as close as you can to red heat ( a creme brulee butane kitchen torch is great here about £6 on ebay) in the hope that the stud comes cleanly out of the head. With a very good fitting socket try tightening a fraction first to see if you can break the rust bond between the nut and the stud or stud and head or even between the nut and the flange then reheat and reapply the magic solution then try loosening. If it moves re-tighten then re-loosen - repeat, repeat, repeat in small increments. Bloody difficult to fit a socket to the rear head exhaust studs, maybe need to sacrifice the ring spanner end of a combination spanner and grind the outside until it fits between the exhaust pipe and the nut. If it does not move, try carefully splitting the nut with a small slitting disc on a Dremel, the stud will need replacing anyway but you want as much stud showing as possible to get the remains out of the head. If the stud still does not want to move you can (after disconnecting battery and earth leads to the frame) weld another nut onto the recalcitrant stud. This often works as the weld heat transfers down the stud to the thread in the head and breaks the corrosion bond. Good luck Last edited by 350TSS; 09-01-2022 at 12:20 AM..

09-01-2022, 12:55 PM	#6
Blah blah Upsetting normal people.. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portreath Bike: S2r Posts: 833	Welcome to another S2r 800, red with white wheels would have been my preferred choice but I couldn't turn down the one I bought...(bit like my 748!) The tank does swell and it makes it difficult to get off (they all do that) and I run Michelins on mine as they suit it quite well in my opinion (even before I did all the other bits to mine, I destroyed the chicken strips!) Stock suspension is a bit 'budget' but can be improved, any evidence of the fork oil being changed? __________________ Power is nothing without control... I have neither !

09-01-2022, 10:12 PM	#8
Dave G Imagineer Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Kilbride Bike: S2r Posts: 1,002	The rear header nuts are a real pain to remove and refit, I had to use a flexible extension and narrow walled socket. It would be easier to remove everything behind it but that’s not always feasible, the nuts should be copper ( I’ve only just discovered that myself) so should come off with brute force, new ones aren’t expensive, can’t say about the studs though. The tank expanding is a headache, take it off and dry it if possible, mine is similar, it still fits but is tricky, I bought a cheap replacement tank with damage as a temp tank while mine is dried out. Remove the whole exhaust and polish it while the bike is being prepped, it makes a huge difference to the overall look. If possible look out for a cat bypass pipe, it makes more difference to the noise than aftermarket pipes and is totally road legal. __________________ "One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man" -Elbert Hubbard

08-01-2022, 07:54 PM	#2
Jam911 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Stratford Upon Avon Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 288	Welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place for knowledge. It looks better in the pics than your description. Enjoy

08-01-2022, 08:58 PM	#3
bigredduke Nothing to see here Join Date: May 2005 Location: brough Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,550	Liking the look of the Parilla in the background. Details sil vous plait?

10-01-2022, 10:48 AM	#9
mickj Registered User Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Clevedon Bike: M1200s Posts: 565	Welcome to the forum Derek. I had an 860GTS in the 80's, another bike I should never have sold. __________________ Keep the rubber side down. Mick

10-01-2022, 03:05 PM	#10
Glawster Registered User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Cheltenham Bike: Other Not a Ducati Posts: 3	Yes I noticed on the Stein Dinse website that the exhaust nuts are copper. Should make them easy to remove. I'm just going to park that job for the time being though as my son will be very pissed off if dismantle his new bike so he can't use it. 46mm socket arrived today and I was relieved to find that the rear wheel nut was not over tightened, which I know can be a problem. Just waiting for Blackcircles to deliver the tyres. Mick - Yes, the GTS is a good bike. I had a brand new one in 1978 for which I paid a discounted price of £1,299! I bought a basket case in 2014 and it turned out quite well. In the end though I sold it to Made in Italy and got a Guzzi V7 Sport as I'd always fancied one. free picture hosting

11-01-2022, 10:28 AM	#11
mickj Registered User Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Clevedon Bike: M1200s Posts: 565	Thanks for the picture Glawster, I now feel worse __________________ Keep the rubber side down. Mick

12-01-2022, 07:46 PM	#12
bigredduke Nothing to see here Join Date: May 2005 Location: brough Bike: M1100evo Posts: 1,550	The Parilla is a lovely looking bike, congratulations!