Bad news and Good News - Page 2

damien666 · 21-10-2020, 04:18 PM

I’m waiting for the cheaper Seat or Skoda variant. I’m not a badge snob!

Tim88 · 21-10-2020, 08:17 PM

Oh my! That was so depressing...Audi motorcycle...ss swing arm and numerous 'styling cues' etc. Not for me, would rather buy a Ural outfit ( or a BMW ) or slit my wrists. I think I'm turning Japanese. I've had my Subaru for twenty years and I will have another, not so sure about Ducati anymore.

Dirty · 22-10-2020, 02:36 PM

God forbid a company that over the years has brainwashed it's customers into believing faults were 'quirks' and 'character', gets taken over by a company that has removed 'that'll do' and 'as long as it looks good' from it's ethos

22-10-2020, 04:35 PM

Desmo Twins becoming V4s
Supersport IL4 600s becoming Parallel Twins

Darren69 · 22-10-2020, 04:41 PM

I suppose you could say it's progress, and sadly these days that's all about making money/profit. there's no room for sentiment there unfortunately.

jerry · 22-10-2020, 07:14 PM

I was recently reading a Thai Review and ad campaign written by VW stooges aimed at selling Scramblers to Thai hipsters ,, it says the bike is deliberately reduced power and made simple to ride for the lifestyle demographic and fashion concious people who will ride this type of bike with little undestanding of motorcycling and techniques and servicing ,it goes on to say that as the Hipster lifestyle evolves , Ducati aim to sell estras and fashion accessories to this group of medium term users , says it all really!!!
the same stooge ad campaign has been used in India, Japan, Malaysia and some parts of Europe ..

Uncle Bob · 22-10-2020, 07:49 PM

I’m not sure there’s an awful lot of ‘That’ll do’ in Ducati these days. Maybe prior to the year 2000...? Certainly none of my Ducati’s have exhibited any of that. Maybe I’m just lucky.

Years ago I had a MK2 Ford Escort 1300 Mexico and that had masses of faults and character, and I loved it! Currently I have a new and rather nippy Ford Focus which does all kinds of clever things, is absolutely faultless, and I love that, too.

Dirty · 23-10-2020, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I’m not sure there’s an awful lot of ‘That’ll do’ in Ducati these days. Maybe prior to the year 2000...? Certainly none of my Ducati’s have exhibited any of that. Maybe I’m just lucky.

'These days'. Kinda proves the point.

Look I love old Dukes, they look fantastic and some of them go great too. But I'm an old fart. The future belongs to people far younger than me and if they don't want to get oily, look forward to buying matching accessories and are more interested in the vibe than getting their knee down then..... their loss.

350TSS · 23-10-2020, 06:50 AM

I am not sure what the worry is about the loss of desmodromic on the new V4 Multistrada. Ducati have always made non desmo bikes, their first and probably biggest seller after all was a push rod (or rather pull rod). The beautiful singles 250 and 350 were offered with or without desmo as were some of the iconic bevels 750 /900 vee twins.
The Pantah, and its later developments leading up to the Monster air cooled V twins were desmo but the reality was that the engines were so designed not to rev too high and desmo valves were probably not really necessary as valve springs are perfectly capable of handling up to 12000 revs. Although desmo valves are a really elegant engineering solution with much lower friction and the cam timing permitted by desmo configuration gives them good torque and fuel economy and a lovely deep flat boom in the exhaust, all rather ruined by driving them by toothed belts which can break.
Desmodromic valve gear only really comes into its own above those revs with the ability to have longer cam overlaps and closer valve clash tolerances.
Desmo will survive in Ducati because it works in racing. Ducati have consistently had the fastest bike in MotoGP since they joined the premier class. Who could ever forget Stoner stomping on the opposition whenever there was a straight?
Most of the other MotoGP bikes rely on compressed nitrogen cylinders to close their valves. I am surprised Ducati have not complained concerning the fuel limit as those bikes will not run without it and the compressed nitrogen is just an additional fuel (closing 16 valves at 16000 rpm for 45 minutes must be worth a litre of petrol).
Non desmo on a Multistrada V4 is arguably a very sensible decision, one of the biggest negative factors on purchasing a Ducati is probably the cost of ownership, valve clearance setting at c£1000 every 15000 miles is a big hit (6.6p a mile).

slob · 23-10-2020, 06:15 PM

If anyone has any questions about Ducati’s choice to pursue this technical direction let me know. i’ve been invited to an online meeting on the subject, so can forward on any questions you have.

Dirty · 23-10-2020, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

If anyone has any questions about Ducati’s choice to pursue this technical direction let me know. i’ve been invited to an online meeting on the subject, so can forward on any questions you have.

Can I have a loaner to try out for year?

slob · 23-10-2020, 08:12 PM

So sure the answer to that one is no, I’m not even going to ask.

Dirty · 23-10-2020, 08:34 PM

Dammit, I'll have to buy one!!

23-10-2020, 08:36 PM

You say that but a YouTuber I follow was given an Audi RS free for six months, and he's even allowed to mod it!

Dirty · 23-10-2020, 08:40 PM

The world has changed massively. People make a living from playing video games.

22-10-2020, 02:36 PM	#18
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	God forbid a company that over the years has brainwashed it's customers into believing faults were 'quirks' and 'character', gets taken over by a company that has removed 'that'll do' and 'as long as it looks good' from it's ethos __________________ Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever Beware of eBay

22-10-2020, 04:41 PM	#20
Darren69 Transmaniacon MOC Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sutton In Ashfield Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 6,091	I suppose you could say it's progress, and sadly these days that's all about making money/profit. there's no room for sentiment there unfortunately. __________________ Roast Beef Monster! Termignoni and Bucci - Italian for pipe and slippers! S4 Fogarty, S4R 07T, 748, Series 1 Mirage

22-10-2020, 07:14 PM	#21
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,897	I was recently reading a Thai Review and ad campaign written by VW stooges aimed at selling Scramblers to Thai hipsters ,, it says the bike is deliberately reduced power and made simple to ride for the lifestyle demographic and fashion concious people who will ride this type of bike with little undestanding of motorcycling and techniques and servicing ,it goes on to say that as the Hipster lifestyle evolves , Ducati aim to sell estras and fashion accessories to this group of medium term users , says it all really!!! the same stooge ad campaign has been used in India, Japan, Malaysia and some parts of Europe .. __________________ MONSTERMAN

22-10-2020, 07:49 PM	#22
Uncle Bob Registered User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Milton Keynes Bike: M1100evo Posts: 233	I’m not sure there’s an awful lot of ‘That’ll do’ in Ducati these days. Maybe prior to the year 2000...? Certainly none of my Ducati’s have exhibited any of that. Maybe I’m just lucky. Years ago I had a MK2 Ford Escort 1300 Mexico and that had masses of faults and character, and I loved it! Currently I have a new and rather nippy Ford Focus which does all kinds of clever things, is absolutely faultless, and I love that, too. Last edited by Uncle Bob; 22-10-2020 at 08:01 PM..

23-10-2020, 08:34 PM	#28
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	Dammit, I'll have to buy one!! __________________ Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever Beware of eBay

21-10-2020, 04:18 PM	#16
damien666 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Leeds, West-Yorks Bike: S4Rs Posts: 497	I’m waiting for the cheaper Seat or Skoda variant. I’m not a badge snob!

21-10-2020, 08:17 PM	#17
Tim88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: London Bike: M1100evo Posts: 98	Oh my! That was so depressing...Audi motorcycle...ss swing arm and numerous 'styling cues' etc. Not for me, would rather buy a Ural outfit ( or a BMW ) or slit my wrists. I think I'm turning Japanese. I've had my Subaru for twenty years and I will have another, not so sure about Ducati anymore.

22-10-2020, 04:35 PM	#19
rac3r Guest Posts: n/a	Desmo Twins becoming V4s Supersport IL4 600s becoming Parallel Twins

23-10-2020, 06:50 AM	#24
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	I am not sure what the worry is about the loss of desmodromic on the new V4 Multistrada. Ducati have always made non desmo bikes, their first and probably biggest seller after all was a push rod (or rather pull rod). The beautiful singles 250 and 350 were offered with or without desmo as were some of the iconic bevels 750 /900 vee twins. The Pantah, and its later developments leading up to the Monster air cooled V twins were desmo but the reality was that the engines were so designed not to rev too high and desmo valves were probably not really necessary as valve springs are perfectly capable of handling up to 12000 revs. Although desmo valves are a really elegant engineering solution with much lower friction and the cam timing permitted by desmo configuration gives them good torque and fuel economy and a lovely deep flat boom in the exhaust, all rather ruined by driving them by toothed belts which can break. Desmodromic valve gear only really comes into its own above those revs with the ability to have longer cam overlaps and closer valve clash tolerances. Desmo will survive in Ducati because it works in racing. Ducati have consistently had the fastest bike in MotoGP since they joined the premier class. Who could ever forget Stoner stomping on the opposition whenever there was a straight? Most of the other MotoGP bikes rely on compressed nitrogen cylinders to close their valves. I am surprised Ducati have not complained concerning the fuel limit as those bikes will not run without it and the compressed nitrogen is just an additional fuel (closing 16 valves at 16000 rpm for 45 minutes must be worth a litre of petrol). Non desmo on a Multistrada V4 is arguably a very sensible decision, one of the biggest negative factors on purchasing a Ducati is probably the cost of ownership, valve clearance setting at c£1000 every 15000 miles is a big hit (6.6p a mile).

23-10-2020, 06:15 PM	#25
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	If anyone has any questions about Ducati’s choice to pursue this technical direction let me know. i’ve been invited to an online meeting on the subject, so can forward on any questions you have.

23-10-2020, 08:12 PM	#27
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	So sure the answer to that one is no, I’m not even going to ask.

23-10-2020, 08:36 PM	#29
rac3r Guest Posts: n/a	You say that but a YouTuber I follow was given an Audi RS free for six months, and he's even allowed to mod it!

23-10-2020, 08:40 PM	#30
Dirty Bockloks Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London Bike: No Bike Yet! Posts: 4,601	The world has changed massively. People make a living from playing video games. __________________ Wounds heal, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever Beware of eBay