Ethanol - Should I be worried

[slob]

Originally Posted by jonzi

Yesterday? I remember doing saying it when we went for that ride out, but the old man probably doesn't remember.

probably couldn't hear you way back there, you young whippersnapper

Originally Posted by Dirty

And I always thought petrol was petrol. Well in fact it is. Aside from the premium brands of course which are slightly different and proprietary. I'll stop filling up at Sainsburys now!

Tesco Superunleaded (RON97) is E0...it dont work the way you might think

Being a new monster rider i have a plastic tank and tend to fill up using shell or shell v power.

Not knowing a damn thing about Rons and %'s and E's (not the petrol kind anyway) i have no idea what all this means.

Can we compose a list of the top 5 say safest petrols to use in the UK given a lot of us have plastic tanks these days.

What do you think ???

[Darren69]

Its not just the tanks, anything plastic or rubber can be damaged by ethanol potentially, so injectors, fuel lines anything

WE NEED A LIST GUYS !!!

Also, a list of ones you must avoid at all cost would be useful !!!

[Dirty]

Well from what I understand the UK only has 5% ethanol in some fuels. Usually the standard unleaded's which are not proprietary ie Fuel from a standard UL pump in an Esso garage could come from a BP refinery. All depends on geographic location.

The premiums are 'branded' so to speak and from info on this thread

0% Ethanol
Tesco super
BP super
Esso super
Total super

5% Ethanol
Shell Super (optimax)

Europe has some fuel that is 10% ethanol, avoid at all costs!

[Mr Gazza]

I owned a Triumph Sprint for a little while earlier this year ( I'm over it now).

The owners forum listed quite a few cases of distorted plastic tanks which was blamed on Ethanol. Some cited blistering paint, and others blistering of the actual tank, with the tanks bulging out of shape.
If the tanks were left off the bike full of petrol, somtimes they would not fit back on..!!
Other cases claimed that the handlebars hit the tank on full lock where they did not previously.

One forum "correspondent" mentioned that there had been some trouble in the USA with Ducatis, and that there was a major legal battle going on. I can't remember if it was Ducati taking the petrol companies to court or the owners taking Ducati to court.?

A pal of mine works on farm and garden machinery (Strimmers, mowers and chainsaws ect.). He says that Ethanol is causing lots of problems with the fuel sysyems of the equipment he deals with.
One of the larger manufacterers (can't remember who) is investing huge amounts of money into developing ethanol proof fuel lines and carburetor parts.

BTW.. One thing you can do to protect your plastic tank at least, is use a sealant such as "Slosh" or similar. There are one or two on the market which claim ethanol resistance specifically.

Finally...And this pisses me off..!! There is a bio-fuel plant about 6 miles away from my home run by an outfit called Oarnold...They suck.
Using tractors and trailers of unbelievable size, they thunder down the lanes, straight off the muddy fields, laden with whatever organic matter they can rip off the land, that will grow over night.
They operate round the clock, including in fields next to my house, not caring how much row they make.
On one occasion I had about a 4" thick deposit of polished mud outside my gate, going about 100yds down the road from the tractors coming off the field....This was simply left to erode and wash off by nature...no attempt whatsoever was made to clear it away, not even a "Mud on road" sign.


....And what does the Bio-Fuel get used for..??....Bloody Tractors..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[s4rmark]

My streetfighter tank was replaced by ducati because of swelling and distortion . My opinion was that it was caused by ethanol , I now only use bp super .

[Dirty]

Originally Posted by Dirty

Well from what I understand the UK only has 5% ethanol in some fuels. Usually the standard unleaded's which are not proprietary ie Fuel from a standard UL pump in an Esso garage could come from a BP refinery. All depends on geographic location.

The premiums are 'branded' so to speak and from info on this thread

0% Ethanol
Tesco super
BP super
Esso super
Total super

5% Ethanol
Shell Super (optimax)

Europe has some fuel that is 10% ethanol, avoid at all costs!

Just did a bit of Internet research. Ignore the above! Looks like Total now add ethanol to all their fuels plus whether or not a premium fuel has ethanol added can depend where you are in the country. For some reason ethanol is added to fuels in the SW that are ethanol free elsewhere.

A recent thread on a Merc forum provides some interesting stuff re availability. I'll paste some pertinent bits.

ESSO

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains 5%
ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels
Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to
be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol). Esso super unleaded petrol
(Esso Energy Supreme) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the
Teesside area and Scotland) and we have no current intention to add ethanol
to Esso Energy Supreme in other areas of the UK.

We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of
ethanol in petrol to use Esso Energy Supreme – providing they don’t fill up
in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

+

All premium unleaded petrol marketed in the UK by Esso contains an ethanol
content of up to 5% by volume. Our energy Supreme Unleaded is largely
ethanol free with the exception of Scotland, the North eastern corner of
England and the far South West. Most vintage cars are compatible with
ethanol up to 5%, although we are aware of concerns by the vintage car
community. Where ethanol free energy Supreme Unleaded is available,
customers may wish to choose that grade – at least 80% of Esso retailed
energy Supreme Unleaded is ethanol free and will remain so into the

BP

In most regions of the UK our Ultimate Unleaded does not contain any Ethanol at present (South West UK excluded). This may of course change in the future as the specification allows up to 5%.

Our Regular grade gasoline does contain up to 5% bio ethanol in compliance with EN228 gasoline specification allowance in most regions of the UK.

[Flip]

There is a little twist to the story though ....

Supermarket branded fuels (as I am lead to believe), are able to sell their fuels at such competitive (?) rates because there are less additives in their fuel - which is good for those that use them for racing where pump fuel is the only kind allowed as you actually get a better burn without them but not quite as good as a premium supplier where they add detergents and such to help clean your road bike engine as you ride meaning less build up of carbon inside resulting in less maintenance.

As Darren says it is not just the tanks that can suffer, is almost anything in the fuel line that is not made of metal (fuel filters, hoses and I suspect that the diaphragms in the top of CV carbs) and as I said earlier, that is why during your MoT they now check inside your fuel cap to ensure the seal is o.k.

I know from my Classic racing where I and a lot of other racers use Amal carburettors that they now manufactuer Ethanol safe 'stay up' floats, as previously they were beginning to suffer the early effects of Ethanol related degredation by taking in fuel and hence dropping in the chamber causing no end of running problems.

[Dave G]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

One forum "correspondent" mentioned that there had been some trouble in the USA with Ducatis, and that there was a major legal battle going on. I can't remember if it was Ducati taking the petrol companies to court or the owners taking Ducati to court.?



BTW.. One thing you can do to protect your plastic tank at least, is use a sealant such as "Slosh" or similar. There are one or two on the market which claim ethanol resistance specifically.

there was a 'class action' against Ducati NA in the US over the distortion of the sportclassic tanks, Ducati NA were replacing tanks under warranty but this isn't a proper solution as they just expanded too. There is a treatment made by Caswell that has been effective, though it can be tricky to apply properly.
It has reached a stage where some owners are buying hand made alloy tanks at huge cost to alleviate this issue.
I fully expect Ducati UK to wash their hands of this as it arises, but as the owner of two potentially affected bikes I'll cheerfully declare I will not buy another Ducati if it has a plastic tank.

[Mr Gazza]

Thanks for filling the gaps there Dave...

I believe that Petseal now do an Ethanol resistant sealer as the original version seems to be suffering from the effects...Not sure if it is any good on plastic/composite tanks though.

Anyway i was glad to get rid of the Triumph and get a Metal bike, but I am still a little worried about my immersed fuel pump.

I think the worst damage comes from relativly long storage periods with Ethanol in the fuel.
I will be taking the precaution of emptying my tank when riding finishes or making sure that it is full of Ethanol free petrol.

Is there anyway of checking at the pump if the petrol you are about o put in/ or not is Ethanol free ???

[Dirty]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

I think the worst damage comes from relativly long storage periods with Ethanol in the fuel.
I will be taking the precaution of emptying my tank when riding finishes or making sure that it is full of Ethanol free petrol.

I believe you are right. Aside from it's affect on plastics and rubber Ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs/attracts/sucks in water from atmosphere). Left over time it becomes the equivalent of dumping half a cup of water in your fuel tank!

Originally Posted by wezrvf

Is there anyway of checking at the pump if the petrol you are about o put in/ or not is Ethanol free ???

Sometimes, but there is currently no legal requirement to do so.

[pompone]

Be wary of storing the tank completely dry for a long timr as this could easily damage the pump