Front wheel nut torque setting

mickj · 20-10-2022, 01:18 PM

I have just replaced my front tyre on my M1200s and I cannot find the torque setting for the spindle nut, the settings for the crimp bolts are etched into the bottom of the forks. Can anyone help, bike is a 2018 M1200s and although the spindle has two notches cut into it there is no corresponding hole in the forks to lock it in place.

Nickj · 21-10-2022, 09:08 AM

Seem to be seeing lots of variation in opinion from 150nm to 186nm.

slob · 21-10-2022, 09:24 AM

???? that’s bloody high for a FRONT spindle Nick, sounds about right for rear with SSS

I would *expect* around 65Nm, with the pinch bolts at around 15Nm, tightened in 1-2-1 sequence. I will see if I can find *accurate* info when I get home

Dukedesmo · 21-10-2022, 12:17 PM

186nm is way too high, as above sounds like the rear wheel nut on a SSSA.

Assuming it's a 25mm spindle? then normally 60 - 65nm I would think as per other Ducati models with similar forks/spindles, from 916 to Panigale etc.

Mr Gazza · 21-10-2022, 01:41 PM

If the notches are the same as the ones on earlier 25mm hollow spindles, they have to line up with the centre line of the fork leg, so that holes in the spindle align and allow you to pass a screwdriver through to adjust the damping screws in the bottom of the leg. They don't locate on anything physical.

Good luck getting any significant torque on the skinny little spindle nut.
All it does is pull the assembly into place with all the spacers up snug.
I usually nip the rh pinch bolts enough to stop the spindle turning, then draw it up with the spindle nut as tight as possible. Then torque up the LH pinch bolts 1-2-1.
Next slacken the RH pinch bolts and give the forks a good bounce before re-tightening.

Once the pinch bolts are tight you might as well take the spindle nut off as it's doing nothing.

slob · 21-10-2022, 04:56 PM

Whilst what Gaza says makes perfect sense, we CANNOT recommend running your bike without a wheel nut, even in jest.
As he says: The wheel spindle is common to other models, which do have a cutout in the (usually Showa) forks for spindle alignment, that ensures access to compression damping screws in the fork bottoms.

2016-2018 M1200R Workshop Manual

Ohlins fork bottom end locking screw M8x1.25 19*Nm GREASE B (Sequence 1-2-1)
Frontwheel nut M25x1.25 63*Nm GREASE B
Front brake calliper retaining screw (RH+LH) M10x1.25 45*Nm GREASE B

* +/- 5%

GREASE B = Molybdenum Disulphide Grease, eg. SHELL Retinax HDX2 or SHELL Gadius S2 V220 AD2

Nickj · 21-10-2022, 05:04 PM

I just stick a socket on and go to about that tight on the front of my S2R, the pinch bolts stop the spindle moving as much as anything. The nut itself is only going to be tight enough not to vibrate off.
Bit more cagey about the rear wheel nut though! That goes to tight and a bit with a longer breaker bar, never moved in the slightest

slob · 21-10-2022, 05:18 PM

... plus the front wheel nut keeps the dirt out of the threads ;-)

Mr Gazza · 21-10-2022, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

Whilst what Gaza says makes perfect sense, we CANNOT recommend running your bike without a wheel nut, even in jest.

Absolutely, and I've never been tempted to run without it, after all its keeping the threads clean for next time and is as good a place to keep it as anywhere. Handy if you ever need to do a wheel change in the wild as well.

It reminds me of the G50 and 7R crankpin nuts that they made at ERM.
Those had a velux thread. (Or was it vernier?) The pitch subtly changed in the length of the nut, so when it was torqued up to something astronomical, it stretched the nut.
Once in place the hexagon was machined off leaving just a collar.
I'm assuming they were chopped off to get the crankpin out as the pin would not be re-used anyway.

utopia · 21-10-2022, 07:49 PM

And, on the pinch bolts .....
There have been many cases of the lower fork castings cracking due to the pinch bolts being tightened unevenly (and uneven tightening also leads to overtightening, which is part of the problem).
Therefore I would emphasise what has already been said about progressive tightening in an alternating sequence and also the use of moly grease on the threads.
Personally I start off by tightening them gently by hand with a normal allen key and I use something more like a 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 sequence to ensure that they are tightened absolutely evenly.
I only get the torque wrench out once this procedure has been completed (and even then I might torque them in two stages rather than giving them full torque in one go).
Also, using this procedure, I then reckon its ok to torque them to the lowest end of the recommended range.

Dukedesmo · 25-10-2022, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

And, on the pinch bolts .....
There have been many cases of the lower fork castings cracking due to the pinch bolts being tightened unevenly (and uneven tightening also leads to overtightening, which is part of the problem).
Therefore I would emphasise what has already been said about progressive tightening in an alternating sequence and also the use of moly grease on the threads.
Personally I start off by tightening them gently by hand with a normal allen key and I use something more like a 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 sequence to ensure that they are tightened absolutely evenly.
I only get the torque wrench out once this procedure has been completed (and even then I might torque them in two stages rather than giving them full torque in one go).
Also, using this procedure, I then reckon its ok to torque them to the lowest end of the recommended range.

Agree entirely.

I had some aftermarket PVM radial mounts fitted to 916 forks and they broke even using the recommended torque settings so be careful (but please leave the spindle nut in place, nice and tight).

Broke during a ride, though I didn't notice until I was home, they were very thin/lightweight metal though presumably for race application?

PVM's attitude was very unsympathetic BTW - "we've got one pair left we can sell you at an extortionate price" rather than addressing it in any way which was disappointing as I thought them to be better than that...

slob · 25-10-2022, 11:02 AM

clamp it, tig it and machine it back into shape

Dukedesmo · 25-10-2022, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

clamp it, tig it and machine it back into shape

I've already replaced them with some Brembo units which are more substantial and, crucially haven't broken (yet), in fact these are the very forks that have been on my Monster for the last 11 years.

I've still got the PVM mounts (one's not broken) lying around if you fancy a project though?

jonzi · 25-10-2022, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slob

clamp it, tig it and machine it back into shape

Sounds like a game

20-10-2022, 01:18 PM	#1
mickj Registered User Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Clevedon Bike: M1200s Posts: 565	Front wheel nut torque setting I have just replaced my front tyre on my M1200s and I cannot find the torque setting for the spindle nut, the settings for the crimp bolts are etched into the bottom of the forks. Can anyone help, bike is a 2018 M1200s and although the spindle has two notches cut into it there is no corresponding hole in the forks to lock it in place. __________________ Keep the rubber side down. Mick

21-10-2022, 09:08 AM	#2
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,206	Seem to be seeing lots of variation in opinion from 150nm to 186nm. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

21-10-2022, 09:24 AM	#3
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	???? that’s bloody high for a FRONT spindle Nick, sounds about right for rear with SSS I would expect around 65Nm, with the pinch bolts at around 15Nm, tightened in 1-2-1 sequence. I will see if I can find accurate info when I get home Last edited by slob; 21-10-2022 at 09:37 AM..

21-10-2022, 12:17 PM	#4
Dukedesmo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Leics Bike: M900 Posts: 2,894	186nm is way too high, as above sounds like the rear wheel nut on a SSSA. Assuming it's a 25mm spindle? then normally 60 - 65nm I would think as per other Ducati models with similar forks/spindles, from 916 to Panigale etc. __________________ M900, 916, LeMans II.

21-10-2022, 01:41 PM	#5
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,961	If the notches are the same as the ones on earlier 25mm hollow spindles, they have to line up with the centre line of the fork leg, so that holes in the spindle align and allow you to pass a screwdriver through to adjust the damping screws in the bottom of the leg. They don't locate on anything physical. Good luck getting any significant torque on the skinny little spindle nut. All it does is pull the assembly into place with all the spacers up snug. I usually nip the rh pinch bolts enough to stop the spindle turning, then draw it up with the spindle nut as tight as possible. Then torque up the LH pinch bolts 1-2-1. Next slacken the RH pinch bolts and give the forks a good bounce before re-tightening. Once the pinch bolts are tight you might as well take the spindle nut off as it's doing nothing. __________________

21-10-2022, 04:56 PM	#6
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	Whilst what Gaza says makes perfect sense, we CANNOT recommend running your bike without a wheel nut, even in jest. As he says: The wheel spindle is common to other models, which do have a cutout in the (usually Showa) forks for spindle alignment, that ensures access to compression damping screws in the fork bottoms. 2016-2018 M1200R Workshop Manual Ohlins fork bottom end locking screw M8x1.25 19Nm GREASE B (Sequence 1-2-1) Frontwheel nut M25x1.25 63Nm GREASE B Front brake calliper retaining screw (RH+LH) M10x1.25 45Nm GREASE B +/- 5% GREASE B = Molybdenum Disulphide Grease, eg. SHELL Retinax HDX2 or SHELL Gadius S2 V220 AD2 Last edited by slob; 21-10-2022 at 05:01 PM..

21-10-2022, 05:04 PM	#7
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,206	I just stick a socket on and go to about that tight on the front of my S2R, the pinch bolts stop the spindle moving as much as anything. The nut itself is only going to be tight enough not to vibrate off. Bit more cagey about the rear wheel nut though! That goes to tight and a bit with a longer breaker bar, never moved in the slightest __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

21-10-2022, 05:18 PM	#8
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	... plus the front wheel nut keeps the dirt out of the threads ;-)

21-10-2022, 07:49 PM	#10
utopia No turn left unstoned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: leicester Bike: M750 Posts: 4,559	And, on the pinch bolts ..... There have been many cases of the lower fork castings cracking due to the pinch bolts being tightened unevenly (and uneven tightening also leads to overtightening, which is part of the problem). Therefore I would emphasise what has already been said about progressive tightening in an alternating sequence and also the use of moly grease on the threads. Personally I start off by tightening them gently by hand with a normal allen key and I use something more like a 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 sequence to ensure that they are tightened absolutely evenly. I only get the torque wrench out once this procedure has been completed (and even then I might torque them in two stages rather than giving them full torque in one go). Also, using this procedure, I then reckon its ok to torque them to the lowest end of the recommended range.

25-10-2022, 11:02 AM	#12
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,733	clamp it, tig it and machine it back into shape