Newby, help needed with 1100 evo !!!

Hi everyone.

I am new to the forum and the Ducati club

I have had my 1100 evo for a few weeks now and am loving the change from an R6 but one thing is really ruining the ride for me.......the suspension!

I have had the suspension/ sag etc set up at KAIS and it certainly feels more balanced but seems to ride soooo hard. Even the smallest crack in the road surface makes the front feel very skittish like there is very little compression in the front springs. KAIS have dropped the front a couple of mm to get a bit of weight over the front wheel which seems fine and handles great when smooth but I just can't get the suspension set so I am confident with it on anything less than perfect tarmac. I have been reducing the compression a little and trying it again to see if it absorbes the road a bit more but it doesn't seem greatly better and I am now on the minimum compression. I have not touched anything else. I am prob 12 stone in all my gear.

Please help me fall in love with this beautiful bike !!

Any advice or help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I have same problem also went to kais about a month ago they softened the front 3 1/2 clicks made it better but still same probs as yours I can live with it but would prefer it a little softer too lazy to go back over

[Mr Gazza]

By "compression" I am assuming that you mean the compression damping.
If this is what you have been doing, and the forks are still hard, then it is time for an oil change and internal clean.

The skitting over the road seams that you describe (Tram lining) is nearly always caused by tyre wear.
Front tyre wear will do it, but I bet you have a flat in the middle of your rear tyre.....?

[Flip]

Surely the fundamental problem lies with the weight of the springs not being correct for your weight (with riding gear/solo/two up etc.) so unless changed they will always be a compromise to suit the majority of riders but Ducati have always been a bit prone to fitting rather hard spring rates.

I presume the preload is set as best you can for static and rider sag?
While compression and rebound damping effects the action of the suspension, if the spring's too hard it will still 'feel' too hard even if it is set to compress or rebound more/less.

Sounds a little odd but is all well and set correctly at the rear?
A lot of feel from there is felt through the steering, an example of this is the effect of raising the rear ride height (or pulling the forks through the yokes which is the same in effect). Although doing so gives the front tyre an easier time by putting more of the weight over it, it also sharpens the steering causing the bike to feel a little skittish at times, often most felt when being a bit 'half hearted' with the power (or blatting down a bumpy back road).

Hey guys, many thanks for all the replies. The adjustment I have been changing is the compression, he one at the bottom of the fork however it makes sense that maybe the preload could be too stiff but I have not changed his since getting it setup at KAIS. I may bring it back to them and ask if thy can reduce the preload.

Is this easy enough to do? Could I just reduce this by a couple of clicks or o you need to balance this with the rebound/ rear suspension etc ??

Thanks again.

[gary tompkins]

Adjusting preload will not change spring compression rate, it only effects the position the forks/shock sit at rest (static sag), and is why you use preload to set this within limits. The damping alters the way the suspension reacts to bumps or under braking. If the suspension's too stiff for your weight with minimal damping then you need a softer spring rate. Frigging around with settings alone will never get the bike working properly for you. Ducati have a habit of over springing for average size riders, and the UK's crappy, pot holed roads. I recently fitted lighter (0.85 kg/mm) Racetech fork springs on my 900ie monster, and it improved the front end feel a lot

[Black Bob]

Hey there.

Don't rule out the possibility that the front can feel bad if the rear is bad.

I had the same issues when I got my Evo - a good bike, with the potential to be way better if only I could get the suspension to do its bloody job and keep both wheels on the ground and my arse in the seat.

Over a bad road, the front felt pretty hard and the rear more so. I already knew I was probably going to have to the replace the shock, or at least the spring, as I'm not very heavy so the spring was bound to be too stiff, plus no compression adjustment on the rear at all. I took it to the same guy that had worked some magic on my previous bike.

The verdict was that the front was not too bad but the rear was awful. The bike was very unbalanced and the rear was making the front feel ****e. (Who knew?)

So I came away with a new rear shock with the right spring rate, and the forks just had a bit of tweaking. The preload on the front forks was wound right up because, as standard, the bike was sinking too much at the front when I sat on it.

By the way - the words "preload" and "stiff" do not belong together. The preload won't make ANY difference to how hard your suspension feels, just the sag when you sit on it.

Bike is now way better and more balanced. Sure the front could possibly be better if I spent more money on it than just adjustments, (like change spring/oil) but the rear was the main issue. Sorting that has made the front feel better.

I'm between 70 and 75 kg fully kitted out. Shock is a Nitron.

Hope that helps.

p.s. I just spotted you're not too much heavier than me - shame you're so far North you could have had a go and see how it felt.

p.p.s. You need to ignore this :

The damping will not make the forks softer, you need to reduce the preload.

That's just wrong.

[utopia]

Are the std fork springs linear rate ? I believe they are, but I'm not certain.
Ducati seem to lean towards fitting linear springs which give the bike a more racy attitude.
This is fine on a good road surface or race track, and means that brake dive is reduced, but it also makes the bike feel harsh over a bumpy surface.
This effect will be even more marked if your bodyweight is less than the average rider.
Progressive springs would give a little more compliance over the bumps, but would also cause the front to dive more under braking. (also note that the term "progressive " is not finite, ie how progressive do you want it ?)
Similarly, lighter (linear) springs would soften the front, but both brake dive and total suspension travel would be increased.
As with many things, its about compromise, and it seems that the factory choose to compromise on the racy side of things, as befits a manufacturer with their performance orientated design philosophy.
But there is also a compromise towards the "average rider" and since, like myself, you are slightly under the average weight, the springs may well be a little on the hard side for you.
Without going to the expense of fitting different springs, all you can really do is to reduce the compression damping, either via the adjuster or by replacing the oil with lighter stuff.
As stated already, reducing the preload will not affect the spring stiffness, merely the sag position.
Then again, preload will affect the attitude of the bike, and hence also the weight distribution between front and rear, which will have some effect on fork compliance, but will also introduce other variables like how the steering responds.
It might help your understanding of how the suspension is working if you fit one of those fork travel indicators (or a cable tie) around the fork leg, so you can measure how much fork travel you are using. If it turns out that you're not using (nearly) all of the available travel then lighter or progressive springs may be the solution.

But I should say that all the above is merely academic speak, ie I think I have a decent grasp of the physical principles but my practical experience at suspension tuning is limited.
And there's nothing worse than armchair techno-waffle.
However, I do have similar issues with my 750 (as well as a bit of engineering design knowledge), and the above is my current understanding of some of the issues involved.

[Darren69]

No-one has mentioned Rebound damping at all. Can you not adjust the rebound damping on these the same as the Showa units? It may be that the fork is not reacting quickly enough on a series of bumps and so feels harsh on anything less than perfectly smooth tarmac. I liken the sensation to that of a road drill. Mine was doing that even with Hyperpro progressive springs, but 2 or 3 clicks back on the rebound has made it much better, ie it reacts much quicker and is ready for the next bump. I didn't even have to back off the compression damping at all. I suggest you put the compression damping back to where KAIS had it set and try backing off the rebound instead.

[SunEye]

When I first got my evo I had real problems having any confidence in what the front was up to. I had front end slides several times. There just seemed to be no grip there and it didn't seem to stay in contact with the road over bumps.

I did several things to the bike which have transformed it.

1) New tyres. Michelin Pilot Road 3. I ride in all weathers. I had these on my M1100 so I know how they behave. That change gave me confidence that I knew what the tyres would do in any given situation.

2) Fitted the handebar riser from an M1100. The evo bar riser is 20mm higher. It's not a lot, but I am more comfortable with the lower bars and I feel like I'm more over the front of the bike rather than sitting up.

3) I had Rob at Pro Twins set up the suspension. I told him what the problems were and that I wanted the bike set up more for comfort than performance. I don't do track days and I don't ride particuarly fast (even if I have scraped my toes in a few corners). I often ride long distances so comfort is important to me. The biggest offender he found was that the rear rebound was set such that if he pressed down on the rear of the bike when he released it you could count whilst the rear gradually returned to position.

The end result is a bike that I have absolute confidence in it. It is also comfortable to ride for long distances and not harsh and stiff feeling like it was before.

For reference I am 5'10" and weigh 74kg.

[Albie]

I wont even tell you how hard my Ohlins are especially the front and has been softened by a Ducati John

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by Albie

I wont even tell you how hard my Ohlins are especially the front and has been softened by a Ducati John

An Ohlins can come as standard with the wrong spring rate, same as any other shock.

[Albie]

Originally Posted by Black Bob

An Ohlins can come as standard with the wrong spring rate, same as any other shock.

Exactly. Nothing is perfect even expensive. But then I am a rubbish rider anyhow !!

Guys, many thanks for all the help and advice. It is sort of good to know I don't have a dudd and it does seem to be a problem with the Evo and even the new monster it would seem. I think I may look into lighter sprints on the front but will defo focus on the rear more now thanks to black bob. I am reluctant to start spending money on it just yet but certainly food for thought. I may see what weight springs my R6 had and see how it compares, does this translate??

In terms of the tires I have never used these before and don't know much about them. What is the general opinion of these?

Thanks again everyone

[gary tompkins]

The total weight (you + bike) and it's distribution on the R6 would be different. 161kg is quoted on the R6 verses 169kg for the Evo, so different spring and damping settings will be required to suit.