Tank leaking at hinge

Wrider · 07-02-2020, 05:17 PM

Traced the source of my leak to the hinge on my tank. Been emailing a few fuel tank repair specialists and mentioned that the solution on all the forums was to get the hinge brazed. The quotes I’m getting are in the region of £180 which I don’t know if that’s excessive?

I was thinking of getting this https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283726218589

Anyone know if it will fit a 2006 S4R?

slob · 07-02-2020, 05:45 PM

If yours is leaking at the hinge, it’s steel. The one you posted a link to is plastic (S4RS)’ which poses two potential problems:
Your fuel pump/filter assembly is different and won’t fit the new tank, you’ll need a new flange/pump assembly.
Also, since it’s a plastic tank it may have suffered from swelling due to ethanol in fuel (I’m suspicious of a ‘rare’ part being dold at less than half the new price.
Plus once you’ve added potential import duty/tax, brazing looks like quite a good option.

Jez900ie · 07-02-2020, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrider

Traced the source of my leak to the hinge on my tank. Been emailing a few fuel tank repair specialists and mentioned that the solution on all the forums was to get the hinge brazed. The quotes I’m getting are in the region of £180 which I don’t know if that’s excessive?

I was thinking of getting this https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283726218589

Anyone know if it will fit a 2006 S4R?

This will repair holes in petrol tanks. It dries over the course of a few days and is harder than steel. It is guranteed to be fuel proof. Its also £22 so what do you have to lose by trying it?

https://www.frost.co.uk/por-15-por-p...kaAnibEALw_wcB

PS.
I have used it a few times on bikes including a Suzuki dirtbike I currently own. Never had a problem, no repairs have ever failed.

Wrider · 07-02-2020, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jez900ie

This will repair holes in petrol tanks. It dries over the course of a few days and is harder than steel. It is guranteed to be fuel proof. Its also £22 so what do you have to lose by trying it?

https://www.frost.co.uk/por-15-por-p...kaAnibEALw_wcB

PS.
I have used it a few times on bikes including a Suzuki dirtbike I currently own. Never had a problem, no repairs have ever failed.

I was looking at stuff like this but just worried If it fails and I have to go through the hassle of removing the tank and fuel plus what ever sealant I use.

Jez900ie · 07-02-2020, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrider

I was looking at stuff like this but just worried If it fails and I have to go through the hassle of removing the tank and fuel plus what ever sealant I use.

I don't know of any other material that is safe to use with petrol.

If trying it out is £22, and getting it brazed (which might fail) is a good deal more and will damage your paintwork, since it is winter and you probably have some spare time...

This stuff is not like any other epoxy. Be sparing if you use it. Rubbing it down is very hardwork because it is so hard.

slob · 07-02-2020, 09:22 PM

You won’t ever remove POR15 once it’s set in the tank, however if the hinge is still flexing under load, there’s a chance it may crack and become ineffective around the damaged area. I’ve used it quite effectively on one of my tanks but have subsequently dented the tank and can’t push the dent out, it needs filling and a full respray. I’d recommend the sealer as a last resort given this experience.

manwithredbike · 07-02-2020, 09:43 PM

Maybe you could shop around for a braze at a reasonable price? £180 seems excessive to me.

350TSS · 08-02-2020, 07:24 PM

Agree at £180 the vendor gave you a "discouraging" price - he did not want the job but would take it for a comfortable price.
This should be a lot less than 2 hours work plus a bit of gas £100 absolute tops.
I got my cracked alternator case aluminium welded for £80.

Mr Gazza · 08-02-2020, 08:07 PM

A fellow brazed and tested mine for forty quid, six years ago. Its been no trouble, stronger than before probably.
POO15 guaranteed for two years... Good luck with that!
I have another tank from Jez900ie, which is Silver soldered and is equally successful. Jez reports using it for some time and no leaks... Yes common problem with the hinge cracking I'm afraid. Caused by lifting the tank with too much fuel in it. The weight twists the bracket and snaps the spot weld.

Brazing and Silver soldering both use a flux, which causes the molten metal to seek into tiny cracks and gaps. POO15 can only ever sit on the outside masking the leak, it cannot add any strength... Leave it in the shop.

Wrider · 26-02-2020, 06:26 PM

Spoken to a welder today he reckon he can get away with tig welding it?

BigOz · 27-02-2020, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrider

The quotes I’m getting are in the region of £180 which I don’t know if that’s excessive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrider

Spoken to a welder today he reckon he can get away with tig welding it?

I've TIG brazed 4 tank hinges in the past using silicon bronze filler.

I don't doubt it could probably be TIG welded successfully but brazing can have the advantage of lower heat input into the job so less damage to the local paint and it runs a lower risk of finding a thin or corroded spot and burning though since you don't melt the base metals when brazing. The first tank I repaired was old and rusty so I brazed it and I've stuck with that method of repair since.

£180 may not be as expensive as it seems, depending on what the welder is required to do to complete the job. A lot of welders will turn down used fuel tank work straight away as it's risky if your not careful and an insurance nightmare I imagine.

The tank needs making safe removing all residual fuel and vapours. (I'd re-do this even if the owner assured me it was done.)
The paint needs removing in the area of the repair, even the little bits trapped under the edges of the spot-welded hinge or they will outgas when welded over and result in a porous weld or braze. This part can feel like it takes half an eternity.
The actual repair.
Leak testing.

The quickest part of the job is the actual repair. It can be tricky to work between the hinge and the back seam of the tank where the bottom is resistance welded to the top, but the rest is easily accessible.

If the tank arrived paint removed spotlessly in the area of the repair, cleaned, degreased and the owner said he didn't want the repair leak tested before return then £180 is expensive.

If it arrived unprepared with fuel residue still inside and the owner wants it repaired and the repair tested not to leak then you could be at it for a full working day plus consumables and £180 sounds too little for someone trying to make a living and feed their family.

Saint aka ML · 27-02-2020, 09:00 AM

Get it brazed. It fixes it no issues each time. As its not visible good welder will make sure you will not need to repaint top of tank but do use something to secure bottom as paint will burn off.
Also do not do minimal brazing again its not visible so tell them to go crazy and rule 1 is you do not want leaking.

BigOz · 27-02-2020, 09:02 PM

Tank plugged up and with 2.5 psi of air in it confirming the leak before starting.

The easy part brazed and before changing my torch setup to work around the vertical hinge parts.

Wrider · 15-03-2020, 10:10 PM

Since I have had to cancel my trip to New York because of the Coronavirus , I now have a bit of money to spend. I’m thinking of sending my tank to specialist to be refurbished and rust proofed. Has anyone else done this? And can recommend anyone and give me a rough estimate of price?

Goofle · 23-03-2020, 09:26 AM

hi,

I recently had a few issues with a leaky tank, documented in the thread in 'Mods and How To...

07-02-2020, 05:17 PM	#1
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 175	Tank leaking at hinge Traced the source of my leak to the hinge on my tank. Been emailing a few fuel tank repair specialists and mentioned that the solution on all the forums was to get the hinge brazed. The quotes I’m getting are in the region of £180 which I don’t know if that’s excessive? I was thinking of getting this https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283726218589 Anyone know if it will fit a 2006 S4R?

07-02-2020, 09:43 PM	#7
manwithredbike aka Phil Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: derry Bike: M900 Posts: 376	Maybe you could shop around for a braze at a reasonable price? £180 seems excessive to me. __________________ .. ~

08-02-2020, 08:07 PM	#9
Mr Gazza Lord of the Rings Join Date: May 2013 Location: Norwich Bike: M900sie Posts: 5,983	A fellow brazed and tested mine for forty quid, six years ago. Its been no trouble, stronger than before probably. POO15 guaranteed for two years... Good luck with that! I have another tank from Jez900ie, which is Silver soldered and is equally successful. Jez reports using it for some time and no leaks... Yes common problem with the hinge cracking I'm afraid. Caused by lifting the tank with too much fuel in it. The weight twists the bracket and snaps the spot weld. Brazing and Silver soldering both use a flux, which causes the molten metal to seek into tiny cracks and gaps. POO15 can only ever sit on the outside masking the leak, it cannot add any strength... Leave it in the shop. __________________

27-02-2020, 09:00 AM	#12
Saint aka ML Junior ah to be young Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,058	Get it brazed. It fixes it no issues each time. As its not visible good welder will make sure you will not need to repaint top of tank but do use something to secure bottom as paint will burn off. Also do not do minimal brazing again its not visible so tell them to go crazy and rule 1 is you do not want leaking. __________________ "I am Lucazade"

27-02-2020, 09:02 PM	#13
BigOz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chatham Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 714	Tank plugged up and with 2.5 psi of air in it confirming the leak before starting. The easy part brazed and before changing my torch setup to work around the vertical hinge parts. __________________ Sideways is the new forward!

07-02-2020, 05:45 PM	#2
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	If yours is leaking at the hinge, it’s steel. The one you posted a link to is plastic (S4RS)’ which poses two potential problems: Your fuel pump/filter assembly is different and won’t fit the new tank, you’ll need a new flange/pump assembly. Also, since it’s a plastic tank it may have suffered from swelling due to ethanol in fuel (I’m suspicious of a ‘rare’ part being dold at less than half the new price. Plus once you’ve added potential import duty/tax, brazing looks like quite a good option.

07-02-2020, 09:22 PM	#6
slob . Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East London Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 9,736	You won’t ever remove POR15 once it’s set in the tank, however if the hinge is still flexing under load, there’s a chance it may crack and become ineffective around the damaged area. I’ve used it quite effectively on one of my tanks but have subsequently dented the tank and can’t push the dent out, it needs filling and a full respray. I’d recommend the sealer as a last resort given this experience.

08-02-2020, 07:24 PM	#8
350TSS Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Shipbourne Bike: M900 Posts: 1,422	Agree at £180 the vendor gave you a "discouraging" price - he did not want the job but would take it for a comfortable price. This should be a lot less than 2 hours work plus a bit of gas £100 absolute tops. I got my cracked alternator case aluminium welded for £80.

26-02-2020, 06:26 PM	#10
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 175	Spoken to a welder today he reckon he can get away with tig welding it?

15-03-2020, 10:10 PM	#14
Wrider Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Telford Bike: S4r Posts: 175	Since I have had to cancel my trip to New York because of the Coronavirus , I now have a bit of money to spend. I’m thinking of sending my tank to specialist to be refurbished and rust proofed. Has anyone else done this? And can recommend anyone and give me a rough estimate of price?

23-03-2020, 09:26 AM	#15
Goofle Registered User Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Powys Bike: M900 Posts: 334	hi, I recently had a few issues with a leaky tank, documented in the thread in 'Mods and How To...