Powercommander Question?

17-08-2008, 03:35 PM

Hi all.
I am considering a power commander & as I have no experience of them, I have a few questions for those of you more clued up than me.

I have a S2R 1000 with closed loop fuel injection (i.e Lamba Sensor) & I have lean running issues.

Dynojet do not make a Powercommander specificly for my bike, can I buy a powercommander for say a Multistrada 1000 or a Monster 1000 ie & fit it to my S2R? What is the difference with all the powercommander options, are the fittings all the same & it is just the maps that are different on the cd's supplied with the kits?

Can I fit a powercommander for say a Monster 1000 ie to my S2R & then get a custom map installed into it at my local tuning shop?

Another problem is that Powercommander say that with Ducati's fitted with closed loop fuel injection (lamba Sensor) the powercommander will not have any effect on the fueling below about 30% throttle opening whilst it is running in closed loop mode? If I disconnect the lamba sensor, would this then allow me to alter the fueling via the powercommander below the 30% throttle opening?

I know disconnecting the lamba will put the mil light on, but I was just considering my options because I have been quoted £750 for a DP ecu which is a bit on the steep side at the moment.
I am begining to think that maybe the DP ecu option is the only realistic option? unless any of you know different?

Stafford · 17-08-2008, 04:38 PM

I'd love to know the answer myself, but if you think it's the PC route then I guess the way forward is to go to an installer and get them to custom fit one.
I was offered this route by the guy in Keynsham. I'd like to do after buying a cheaper one from the USA, if only I knew which one.
When I ran mine without the Lambda connected I didn't get any warning lights, but it does run better with it fitted. I am running with Termis' and DP ECU.

17-08-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stafford

When I ran mine without the Lambda connected I didn't get any warning lights, but it does run better with it fitted. I am running with Termis' and DP ECU.

Are you running a de-cat pipe as well?
I have been told the DP ecu eliminates the lamba sensor which explains why you are not getting a warning light on, you may as well take the lamba right out & put a bung in the hole.

Where did you get your DP ecu? did it come as part of your Termi kit?

Why do you still have lean running issues?
Does the DP ecu not cure these problems?
I don't want to shell out £750 for a DP ecu only to find it is no better.

I am totally confused as to what to do to cure the problem in the most cost effective way.

Stafford · 17-08-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desmo

Are you running a de-cat pipe as well?
I have been told the DP ecu eliminates the lamba sensor which explains why you are not getting a warning light on, you may as well take the lamba right out & put a bung in the hole.

Where did you get your DP ecu? did it come as part of your Termi kit?

Why do you still have lean running issues?
Does the DP ecu not cure these problems?
I don't want to shell out £750 for a DP ecu only to find it is no better.

I am totally confused as to what to do to cure the problem in the most cost effective way.

Yes I have a De-cat pipe.
With a bung in the hole she runs at bit cack with crap tick over.

The DP ECU came with the bike and Termi kit.
Rich @ Luigi Moto made some changes to the CO2, but could do nothing down low (tickover+) because of the way the ECU overrides all attempts.
She runs fine now, we can swap for a ride sometime.

Nickj · 17-08-2008, 08:24 PM

All they mean is that they don't have any fueling maps for you bike (same as mine) so you don't get a good fit to a standard or modded bike. Then to optimise these you really need to have a few dyno runs. I think it's three to go the whole hog and fine tune the individual cyinders, One to get a stock base map second with the PC on and mapped more precisely and third to fine tune the two cylinders individually.

18-08-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stafford

we can swap for a ride sometime.

I'm afraid that's a no go, cos I am not insured to ride anyone else's bike, we will definately have to meet up sometime though for a ride out seeing that you live close to me.

I also have a S2R800 with the same exhaust mods as the 1000 has, the 800 runs great & is a wonderful bike to ride.

By comparision the 1000 is a pig to ride, not enjoyable at all at the moment, I have seen a couple of gizmo's which may or may not mask over the problem I have, I will make a few phone calls this week.

If all else fails, I will just have to save up the dosh over the winter for a DP ecu.

At least I know what the problem is, it's just that to rectify it properly costs a lot of money.

jerry · 17-08-2008, 11:27 PM

My S4 was transformed by a Powercommander from a crappy running bike into an awesome beast

emily's driver · 18-08-2008, 04:10 PM

The DP ECU eradicates the error thrown up by the standard ECU, if you remove the lambda sensor. In addition the PCIII cannot make adjustements at low RPM unless you remove the sensor from the equation, which means the DP ECU is the only viable option. If you really want some noticeable gains then a full system that does away with all the tree hugging environmental crap on the bike is the only way to go. This in conjunction with a PCIII and the race ECU, plus as has been mentined some dyno time will pay big dividends. Either that or go for a Nemesis ECU and a full system. Depends how much you want to spend and what you want out the bike ultimately. Both these options will result in some appreciable gains and a much improved spread of engine power and performance as well as smoother delivery.

18-08-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily's driver

Either that or go for a Nemesis ECU and a full system. .

Yes, I have been busy exploring all the different options today, from what I have been told Nemesis do not do an ecu that is compatable with my bike, the other option is the Ultimap U59, one dealer I spoke to said it wasn't available for the S2R 1000 & even if it was he wouldn't recommend this route as they have had mixed results fitting it to other bikes.
Another dealer I spoke to was much more enthusiastic about the Ultimap U59 & said it was a great bit of kit & quoted me £450 + about half hour set up time, the only problem with this unit is you lose your factory security & obviously there could be a Ducati warranty issue if anything were to go wrong with the engine.

I just wish I could get some consistant good information, ie is the Ultimap U59any good or not!!

The Ultimap U59 is a lot cheaper than the DP ecu, but only if it will do the job, I would like to speak to someone who has actually had one fitted to an
S2R 1000 to see what the results are.

At the moment, because the Ultimap U59 is a bit of an unknown quantity, I think the DP ecu may be the way to go?

CK & AK · 18-08-2008, 05:48 PM

Desmo - phone Mark Hill & have a chat with him, he 'knows his stuff'.
OK, he's not on your doorstep (as he's in Herts) but has done a great job on many bikes, and is also familiar with Ducati's.
We use him for much of our tuning work - including using PC's on the race bikes - and also the FIM too.

http://200mhp.co.uk/contactus.aspx

C

marchesini · 18-08-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desmo

I just wish I could get some consistant good information, ie is the Ultimap U59any good or not!!

The Ultimap U59 is a lot cheaper than the DP ecu, but only if it will do the job, I would like to speak to someone who has actually had one fitted to an
S2R 1000 to see what the results are.

"The Ultimap U59 Computer (£450)

FIM's solution to the lack of adjustment in the Standard 5.9 Weber computer. A completely new computer that plugs straight into the standard wiring loom using the standard plugs and brackets. Re flash-loadable with maps for any bike originally fitted with the 5.9 Weber we can put in and adjust any map we like. Rev limits, fueling, barometric pressure and cold running settings are all adjustable..The Definitive fueling solution for the modern Ducati."

I have one on my S4R and it works perfectly. I used DWR (Dave Woods) to set mine up and it does exactly what it says on the tin. I guess it's all down to who is doing the set-up. I know Dave had a few problems with mine but a few phone calls to the makers in Oz (not Sigma, the distributors) and it was all sorted.

I believe it has a lot more 'fiddleability' (is that a word?) on it than the DP ECU and it can bypass the immobiliser. I do believe that was an option in the settings (if my memory serves me correctly) so I think you have the choice. This was ideal for me as I replaced the standard clocks with a digital race dash and so got around all the red key/black key/ECU/immobiliser debacle.

Give Dave a call and I'm sure he will remember a lot more than me. He also has a dyno on site now so can really get the best out of your set-up. I think when he was trying the set up, a lot of 'experts' told him that bypassing the immobiliser couldn't be done but he managed it anyway. If anyone can make it work, Dave can.

Hope this helps

Simon

CK & AK · 18-08-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marchesini

"The Ultimap U59 Computer (£450)

FIM's solution to the lack of adjustment in the Standard 5.9 Weber computer. A completely new computer that plugs straight into the standard wiring loom using the standard plugs and brackets. Re flash-loadable with maps for any bike originally fitted with the 5.9 Weber we can put in and adjust any map we like. Rev limits, fueling, barometric pressure and cold running settings are all adjustable..The Definitive fueling solution for the modern Ducati."

I have one on my S4R and it works perfectly. I used DWR (Dave Woods) to set mine up and it does exactly what it says on the tin. I guess it's all down to who is doing the set-up. I know Dave had a few problems with mine but a few phone calls to the makers in Oz (not Sigma, the distributors) and it was all sorted.

I believe it has a lot more 'fiddleability' (is that a word?) on it than the DP ECU and it can bypass the immobiliser. I do believe that was an option in the settings (if my memory serves me correctly) so I think you have the choice. This was ideal for me as I replaced the standard clocks with a digital race dash and so got around all the red key/black key/ECU/immobiliser debacle.

Give Dave a call and I'm sure he will remember a lot more than me. He also has a dyno on site now so can really get the best out of your set-up. I think when he was trying the set up, a lot of 'experts' told him that bypassing the immobiliser couldn't be done but he managed it anyway. If anyone can make it work, Dave can.

Hope this helps

Simon

Spot on Simon - particularly about the bypass of immobiliser

19-08-2008, 02:22 AM

Thanks all for all the extra info, it's more difficult than I thought to get to the bottom of anything on the phone, most of the dealers either don't seem to know alot or don't want to pass on much technical info!!

As regards to the immobilliser I am led to belive that the DP ecu will plug in & fire up straight away, it's only when you code it to the bike with the red key that it then becomes coded to the keys & clocks, is that right?

So in theory, provided a new DP ecu was fitted to a bike but never coded with the red key, it could be taken off & reused on another bike sometime in the future?

I was led to belive that the Ultimap U59 was a unit that just plugged straight in to the original wiring harness & came supplied with a base fuelling & ignition map which could then be fine tuned with VDST software or similar?
I don't think you can program the Ultimap U59 into the immobilliser circuit? I thought that was the main disadvantage with this unit, that you lose your security system with possible implications on your insurance cover, cos most people's insurance cover has a discount due to the factory Ducati immobilliser system?

I will give Mark Hill a call, perhaps he can help me decide which system is best to go for.

Thanks all.

17-08-2008, 03:35 PM	#1
desmo Guest Posts: n/a	Powercommander Question? Hi all. I am considering a power commander & as I have no experience of them, I have a few questions for those of you more clued up than me. I have a S2R 1000 with closed loop fuel injection (i.e Lamba Sensor) & I have lean running issues. Dynojet do not make a Powercommander specificly for my bike, can I buy a powercommander for say a Multistrada 1000 or a Monster 1000 ie & fit it to my S2R? What is the difference with all the powercommander options, are the fittings all the same & it is just the maps that are different on the cd's supplied with the kits? Can I fit a powercommander for say a Monster 1000 ie to my S2R & then get a custom map installed into it at my local tuning shop? Another problem is that Powercommander say that with Ducati's fitted with closed loop fuel injection (lamba Sensor) the powercommander will not have any effect on the fueling below about 30% throttle opening whilst it is running in closed loop mode? If I disconnect the lamba sensor, would this then allow me to alter the fueling via the powercommander below the 30% throttle opening? I know disconnecting the lamba will put the mil light on, but I was just considering my options because I have been quoted £750 for a DP ecu which is a bit on the steep side at the moment. I am begining to think that maybe the DP ecu option is the only realistic option? unless any of you know different?

17-08-2008, 04:38 PM	#2
Stafford P3, nice. Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calne Bike: S2r 1000 Posts: 2,145	I'd love to know the answer myself, but if you think it's the PC route then I guess the way forward is to go to an installer and get them to custom fit one. I was offered this route by the guy in Keynsham. I'd like to do after buying a cheaper one from the USA, if only I knew which one. When I ran mine without the Lambda connected I didn't get any warning lights, but it does run better with it fitted. I am running with Termis' and DP ECU. __________________ celeres-racing.blogspot.co.uk/ The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival.

17-08-2008, 08:24 PM	#5
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,208	All they mean is that they don't have any fueling maps for you bike (same as mine) so you don't get a good fit to a standard or modded bike. Then to optimise these you really need to have a few dyno runs. I think it's three to go the whole hog and fine tune the individual cyinders, One to get a stock base map second with the PC on and mapped more precisely and third to fine tune the two cylinders individually. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

17-08-2008, 11:27 PM	#7
jerry Old Git Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cricklade Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 2,908	My S4 was transformed by a Powercommander from a crappy running bike into an awesome beast __________________ MONSTERMAN

18-08-2008, 04:10 PM	#8
emily's driver Full Metal Tea Bag Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norwich Bike: S4Rs Posts: 374	The DP ECU eradicates the error thrown up by the standard ECU, if you remove the lambda sensor. In addition the PCIII cannot make adjustements at low RPM unless you remove the sensor from the equation, which means the DP ECU is the only viable option. If you really want some noticeable gains then a full system that does away with all the tree hugging environmental crap on the bike is the only way to go. This in conjunction with a PCIII and the race ECU, plus as has been mentined some dyno time will pay big dividends. Either that or go for a Nemesis ECU and a full system. Depends how much you want to spend and what you want out the bike ultimately. Both these options will result in some appreciable gains and a much improved spread of engine power and performance as well as smoother delivery. __________________ Ricambi Moto UK - Ducati Parts & Accessories (www.ricambimoto.uk) Last edited by emily's driver; 18-08-2008 at 04:13 PM..

18-08-2008, 05:48 PM	#10
CK & AK flob-a-lob-a-lob Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NW Surrey Bike: Multiple Monsters Posts: 3,306	Desmo - phone Mark Hill & have a chat with him, he 'knows his stuff'. OK, he's not on your doorstep (as he's in Herts) but has done a great job on many bikes, and is also familiar with Ducati's. We use him for much of our tuning work - including using PC's on the race bikes - and also the FIM too. http://200mhp.co.uk/contactus.aspx C

19-08-2008, 02:22 AM	#13
desmo Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks all for all the extra info, it's more difficult than I thought to get to the bottom of anything on the phone, most of the dealers either don't seem to know alot or don't want to pass on much technical info!! As regards to the immobilliser I am led to belive that the DP ecu will plug in & fire up straight away, it's only when you code it to the bike with the red key that it then becomes coded to the keys & clocks, is that right? So in theory, provided a new DP ecu was fitted to a bike but never coded with the red key, it could be taken off & reused on another bike sometime in the future? I was led to belive that the Ultimap U59 was a unit that just plugged straight in to the original wiring harness & came supplied with a base fuelling & ignition map which could then be fine tuned with VDST software or similar? I don't think you can program the Ultimap U59 into the immobilliser circuit? I thought that was the main disadvantage with this unit, that you lose your security system with possible implications on your insurance cover, cos most people's insurance cover has a discount due to the factory Ducati immobilliser system? I will give Mark Hill a call, perhaps he can help me decide which system is best to go for. Thanks all.