Modern Monsters

[Flip]

A little question for you owners of modern Monsters although my problem relates to my Moto Guzzi V7.

I am just wondering if the UK spec Monsters employ any kind of Evap system to prevent fuel tank vapours from exiting to the fresh air like they did in the old days?

I ask as my V7 has a charcoal canister filter which is operated under a vacuum from a cylinder inlet which draws fuel vapour from the fuel tank. Apparently this can either be flooded if the fuel tank is over filled or cause a vacuum in the fuel tank itself if the canister (it’s positioned right in front of the rear wheel) breather is partially blocked.

Presumably all this is to satisfy the Euro 4 emissions as it also has a Secondary Air System which pumps fresh air into the exhausts to dilute tail pipe emissions still further.

I thought initially this might just be for California spec bikes or something but I guess they’re made in such small numbers they fit them for all markets.

Because of the problems this causes a lot of people appear to remove them (along with the SAS) and so I wonder if the new Monsters had similar what you guys were doing with it?

Cheers chaps!

[Ron1000]

My understanding is that my 1100 evo has an evap system…so anything after that will have one too. Id suspect 1100 / s / 796 / 696 will all have them.

Prior to them I’d have no idea.

Never had or heard of any issues with them. I believe you can get delete kits.

[Luddite]

Evaporative emissions for motorcycles have only been regulated from Euro 4 so any bike's that are Euro 4 compliant or later will have an Evap system.

Our 1100 Evos, Ron, were only ever produced to Euro 3 standard so won't have one. The only Evos with an 'Evaporative Emission Control System' will be ones sold on the Californian market.

[Luddite]

For anyone interested, here's the Evap canister for a 2017, Euro-spec M1200

[Flip]

Brilliant thank you for that- I did suspect it was a Euro 4 thing but there doesn’t seem to be much of a V7 resource like the UKMOC here in the UK.

The main one is mostly US based but the Evap system was certainly fitted to earlier bikes for that market and coupled with some of earlier bikes having plastic fuel tanks when they fail it causes at best a difficult to remove fuel cap and at worst a deformed fuel tank and failure of the fuel pump where it fights against the vacuum (or so some claim).

It seems simple enough to remove (it has to be relocated to fit the factory option centre stand) and just a case of lengthening the breather hoses from the tank and fitting a blanking cap to the inlet vacuum take-off.

So, clever electronic ECU people- is this going to throw up any error codes or cause me any other issues I am not aware of?

Likewise, there is a kit available (not particularly cheap though) to blank off the Secondary Air System- do the Euro 4 compliant Monsters have a similar system or is it just MG frigging the readings to comply?

And again, if I remove it is it going to flag an error?

I can’t see it would require a re-map as it is literally fed into the exhausts via the air filter box but I may be missing something??

[Mr Gazza]

If there are no electrical connections involved then the ECU will be blind to the breather system, I doubt it would be interested in it anyway as it has no effect on combustion.

The fresh air into the exhaust would only be a problem if there was a sensor downwind of the inlets. A lambda or O2 sensor upwind would not see them and only get exhaust gas. Again with no impact on combustion.

The only problem I can see is that if your bike gets an emission test at MOT time it would have to comply to Euro 4, but as far as I know they don't test emissions on bikes?

[Blah blah]

I still think my S2r is modern... but it's 15 years old !

[Luddite]

I agree with MrGazza. I don't think there are any sensors linked to the Evap system so there will be no way for the ECU to know whether the canister is present or not. I can't see it triggering an error or requiring a remap as it doesn't affect fuelling.

As I understand it, the Evap system isn't designed to clean up exhaust emissions but is there to stop petrol fumes entering the atmosphere when they evaporate from the fuel tank while the bike is parked.

Petrol fumes enter the canister via the tank breather where they are held by the charcoal filter. Once the engine is running, they are then drawn into the inlet tract to be burnt in the engine. So, if you remove the canister, you'll need to block the intake feed and leave the tank breather to vent to atmosphere.

[Nickj]

Originally Posted by Blah blah

I still think my S2r is modern... but it's 15 years old !

Modern classic like mine is too LOL

[Ron1000]

Originally Posted by Luddite

Evaporative emissions for motorcycles have only been regulated from Euro 4 so any bike's that are Euro 4 compliant or later will have an Evap system.

Our 1100 Evos, Ron, were only ever produced to Euro 3 standard so won't have one. The only Evos with an 'Evaporative Emission Control System' will be ones sold on the Californian market.

Thanks Lud. An education as always

[Flip]

I love this club- thanks for humouring me on my Guzzi questions.

I have found out that the major V7 forum is run by a proprietor of a Guzzi parts company so am more than a little sceptical of some of the threads there.

Never the less, I see no point (other than the aforementioned Euro 4 compliance) for the Evap system and so as the canister needs to be relocated for a centre stand anyway, it has to go.

So I plan on removing the filter (item 3) and the tip valve (item 7) and extending that breather (green line) to below the swinging arm. While blanking off the throttle body vacuum take off (blue line/item 4).