Neutral light liar

27-04-2011, 10:06 PM

Why does my neutral light comes on in 1st gear but not in neutral? I've had the bike 2 years, and according to the service book the neutral switch was replaced just before i bough it.
It's really annoying as I cant let it warm up on the side stand.

Capo · 27-04-2011, 10:33 PM

The fact that you cant warm up on the side stand indicates the problem is with the switch. Actually its not a switch rather its a spring loaded contact that bears on the selector drum, the drum has an insulating band that provides no circuit when the drum has selected a gear, when in neutral in bears directly on the metal surface of the drum completing a circuit to ground.

28-04-2011, 09:16 AM

Also, whoever fitted the new switch didn,t set it up correctly, there is a shim under the switch that needs to be adjusted by changing for one of the correct thickness.

28-04-2011, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the answers, I'm due an oil change so I'll remove it then and check the shim. By the looks of it I think I'll need a long box spanner type thing as I don't think a socket'll fit down the hole?

01-05-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dookbob

Also, whoever fitted the new switch didn,t set it up correctly, there is a shim under the switch that needs to be adjusted by changing for one of the correct thickness.

I think the shims were used in the older type. The S2R just has one wire which provides a short to earth to complete the neutral circuit.
The neutral circuit works (short the wire to earth and it's ok) the switch (which is just a sprung contact) works as well, it's just that it comes on in 1st gear not neutral.
This has been happening for nearly all the time I've owned the bike, although the neutral light did work in neutral for a short while just after i got the bike.
Could it be that the insulation on the selector drum has moved? is there an adjustment?
it's getting on my tit now and i'd really like to sort it. I can't see how a new contsct would help.

Capo · 01-05-2011, 05:59 PM

It sounds like the insulating ring has become displaced tho quite how I could not imagine. It would be possible to view it after removing the switch, you would need a torch with a narrow beam and perhaps a mirror.

This is what it looks like. It would seem that the ring holding the insulating material is not an integral part of the drum, presumably an iterference fit, it may have been displaced, if this is the case, the ring will look OK when observed through the switch hole.

01-05-2011, 08:14 PM

Thanks Capo, thats just the picture i was looking for!
I can see something down the hole, but my eyesight/torch/mirror isn't good enough to differentiate between the shaft and the insulator, it's quite a deep hole and only 8mm dia.
Should there be a mushroom shape at the contactor of the device? I saw a picture of one that looked like it had one, but mine is just a short shaft about 2mm dia?
Is there any adjustment you know about for either the shaft or the gear selector? Because it definitely looks like some mis-alignment as there is a definite earth connection in 1st and no earth connection in neutral.
If all else fails I might disconnect it completely and put a remote switch to allow me to start it with the stand down.

Capo · 01-05-2011, 08:40 PM

There is no method of adjustment, nor a mushroom head, the end is as you describe.

Nickj · 02-05-2011, 03:42 PM

What you really need is more a paradigim shift in your thinking

Instead of a neutral light it becomes an indicator in the style of the old tap it and see barometer, not an absolute indication of conditions more of a general trend.

03-05-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickj

What you really need is more a paradigim shift in your thinking

Instead of a neutral light it becomes an indicator in the style of the old tap it and see barometer, not an absolute indication of conditions more of a general trend.

It's a good theory, and one that's been the case since the thing started showing me 1st instead of neutral.
However my main problem is that with the sidestand down the motor cuts out unless the neutral light is on. Means I can't warm up on the stand, or leave it ticking over while I close the garage door etc. more of an embuggerance than anything, I just thought there'd be history somewhere and an easy fix. 'parently not.
So to attck it from stage left; I can use it to indicate 1st and defeat the sidestand switch, or use a manual device (switch) to turn the neutral light on..... descisions descisions..

03-05-2011, 02:54 PM

Looking at the insulating ring on Capo,s photo, the insulation is offset from centre, so if some numpty has removed it for whatever reason and replaced it back to front, could this cause the problem you are currently experiencing. Just a stab in the dark.

03-05-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dookbob

Looking at the insulating ring on Capo,s photo, the insulation is offset from centre, so if some numpty has removed it for whatever reason and replaced it back to front, could this cause the problem you are currently experiencing. Just a stab in the dark.

Yes, I agree, there's that horrible thought lurking... There's mention of a replacement clutch in the service history, which I thought a bit odd considering I got the bike with less than 8000 miles on it. I wouldn't think the gear selector drum should be removed for a clutch tho? And I wouldn't consider splitting the engine just to get the neutral light working.

04-05-2011, 06:01 AM

Put it in.first and put a small Allen key or similar and test continuity to earth. That will tell you if insulation is doing its job . If it isnt then start the strip down.... or by pass neutral switch and take bulb out...... (not recommended).

Don't mean to sound blunt. Damn phone and its predictive text. Took me five minutes to get the riggt words out!!!!! Grrrr

27-04-2011, 10:06 PM	#1
Bigxr Guest Posts: n/a	Neutral light liar Why does my neutral light comes on in 1st gear but not in neutral? I've had the bike 2 years, and according to the service book the neutral switch was replaced just before i bough it. It's really annoying as I cant let it warm up on the side stand.

01-05-2011, 05:59 PM	#6
Capo You Are What You Is Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Foward Location Bike: S4r Posts: 1,948	It sounds like the insulating ring has become displaced tho quite how I could not imagine. It would be possible to view it after removing the switch, you would need a torch with a narrow beam and perhaps a mirror. This is what it looks like. It would seem that the ring holding the insulating material is not an integral part of the drum, presumably an iterference fit, it may have been displaced, if this is the case, the ring will look OK when observed through the switch hole. Last edited by Capo; 01-05-2011 at 06:04 PM..

02-05-2011, 03:42 PM	#9
Nickj Too much time on my hands member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Forest Of Dean Bike: S2r Posts: 3,195	What you really need is more a paradigim shift in your thinking Instead of a neutral light it becomes an indicator in the style of the old tap it and see barometer, not an absolute indication of conditions more of a general trend. __________________ "The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body." Song of the sausage creature

27-04-2011, 10:33 PM	#2
Capo You Are What You Is Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Foward Location Bike: S4r Posts: 1,948	The fact that you cant warm up on the side stand indicates the problem is with the switch. Actually its not a switch rather its a spring loaded contact that bears on the selector drum, the drum has an insulating band that provides no circuit when the drum has selected a gear, when in neutral in bears directly on the metal surface of the drum completing a circuit to ground.

28-04-2011, 09:16 AM	#3
Dookbob Guest Posts: n/a	Also, whoever fitted the new switch didn,t set it up correctly, there is a shim under the switch that needs to be adjusted by changing for one of the correct thickness.

28-04-2011, 12:23 PM	#4
Bigxr Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the answers, I'm due an oil change so I'll remove it then and check the shim. By the looks of it I think I'll need a long box spanner type thing as I don't think a socket'll fit down the hole?

01-05-2011, 08:14 PM	#7
Bigxr Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks Capo, thats just the picture i was looking for! I can see something down the hole, but my eyesight/torch/mirror isn't good enough to differentiate between the shaft and the insulator, it's quite a deep hole and only 8mm dia. Should there be a mushroom shape at the contactor of the device? I saw a picture of one that looked like it had one, but mine is just a short shaft about 2mm dia? Is there any adjustment you know about for either the shaft or the gear selector? Because it definitely looks like some mis-alignment as there is a definite earth connection in 1st and no earth connection in neutral. If all else fails I might disconnect it completely and put a remote switch to allow me to start it with the stand down.

01-05-2011, 08:40 PM	#8
Capo You Are What You Is Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Foward Location Bike: S4r Posts: 1,948	There is no method of adjustment, nor a mushroom head, the end is as you describe.

03-05-2011, 02:54 PM	#11
Dookbob Guest Posts: n/a	Looking at the insulating ring on Capo,s photo, the insulation is offset from centre, so if some numpty has removed it for whatever reason and replaced it back to front, could this cause the problem you are currently experiencing. Just a stab in the dark.

04-05-2011, 06:01 AM	#13
analogue_rogue Guest Posts: n/a	Put it in.first and put a small Allen key or similar and test continuity to earth. That will tell you if insulation is doing its job . If it isnt then start the strip down.... or by pass neutral switch and take bulb out...... (not recommended). Don't mean to sound blunt. Damn phone and its predictive text. Took me five minutes to get the riggt words out!!!!! Grrrr