New V twin from Bologna

[crawsue]

Interested to see that the new “small” engine for the SS , Hyp & presumably next Monster is NOT desmodronic….looks like Ducati have made the decision to move away from desmo……I understand that some of the V4 lumps are also spring activated. Is it complexity, service intervals or weight….or all three ?

[Bitza]

I'd always felt that desmo operated valves are only really going to be advantageous where an engine is to rev very high and or where the cam profile is intended to givesharp/sudden opening /closing. For a "cooking" type engine there's no great advantage to be gained.

[Kato]

I have no doubt it is the Audi overlords forcing this move, perhaps they haven't recognised that brand dilution for initial coporate gain will lead to to sinificant loss of customer trust and their short sighted strategic decisions will weaken the brand equity, 19 July 2012 was a signing of the death knell for Ducati as a serious manufacturer

You only have to look at what they have done to lamborgini to see the disaster that is looming

[Kato]

Originally Posted by Bitza

I'd always felt that desmo operated valves are only really going to be advantageous where an engine is to rev very high and or where the cam profile is intended to givesharp/sudden opening /closing. For a "cooking" type engine there's no great advantage to be gained.

You are of course right, but that is not the point

[Nickj]

Continuing to use the desmo valve train is more a heritage and branding choice, loosing it walks away from the established brand identity in a fairly significant way and just reduces the brand to a name.
It probably makes great financial sense given the continued use is more down to 'it's what we do' but to my thinking reduces the brand to being another generic motor.

#Complexity, yes it is more moving parts so more expensive to make and assemble. Then they are sold as a 'premium' brand.
#Weight, marginal gains at best.
#Service Interval, how many times have tou checked your clearances to find that they are the same as they were 12 months ago when they were the same as 12 months before that. It's essentially a stable mechanical system and other than wear doesn't really change over time. If you see a significant change then you know something bigger than a shim needs replacing!

The bottom line is cost, less cost per unit in production at the same resale point makes a bigger profit margin.

[utopia]

To my mind, the advantage of desmo is that it can control relatively large valves operating at high speeds without the valve bounce that their high inertia would otherwise incur.
Smaller valves, ie in smaller engines or four valve designs are easier to control accurately with springs.

I have respect for the V4 engines but my personal penchant is for the big bore, twin cylinder Ducatis which defined the breed from the early 1970s. Desmo operation is a core feature of such engines.

[stopintime]

First; it's an L2. V is something else. V is marketing.

My impression is that most Ducatisti who arrived around the Scrambler intro, or surely the V4 (it really is an L4!!!!), are unaware of the historic significance of desmodromic valve control. In fact they usually have no clue what a valve is. It's no longer a valid point or advantage (yes, MAYBE on a pure race engine, but not for mortals).

The hunt for soft manageable engines started with the 11 degrees testastretta 848 Streetfighter. Most people thought it was a good thing, cool even. What if Ducati called that bike "soft bike"? Along the same line of thought came the variable timing. Nice, but unsexy? Chain driven cams are probably just positive (?) and almost service themselves. Tight tolerances in the factory, good oil and you get looong intervals.

Scared and poorly trained riders will benefit from the touring edition's lower 1. and 2. gear.

Ducati launch this engine as light. Just forgot to admit that the engine is boring and unsexy. Lower on power. Peak torque at almost 9,000 revs. NOBODY rides around that number.

Maybe this green('er) package will keep the L2 alive a while longer.

IMO Ducati should be a small brand, dreamy bikes, crazy engines and top spec chassis/suspension, but that's not what the share holders want. They decide. As long as they keep winning races, they will sell many bikes. They sell more and more "soft" bikes - probably financially smart, but sooo unsexy.

[Mr Gazza]

Valves?!?
So last Century!

[walkingpictures]

Originally Posted by Mr Gazza

Valves?!?
So last Century!

Need 'em to pump ya tyres up Gary............

[Mr Gazza]

Ha ha, I never thought of that, and it's the only maintenance!

I've got a V-twin compressor too.. (Non Desmodromic.)

[Bitza]

I tend to agree that as a generalisation new generations of Ducati owners seem less likely to be technically minded and therefore desmo valve trains hold little allure. For me personally Real Ducatis are desmo, in the same way that real MGs have octagonal wheels.
For the older members, I also came across another form of desmo valve gear, where poppet valves were replaced with small pistons bcontrolled by rods following a cam on the inside of a ring-cam.

[slob]

it’s all about reducing servicing costs/intervals, when you buy a desmo and find that you’re paying double what your mates on other marques are paying annually, it’s going to make significant numbers buy an R1,Gixxer, ‘blade etc next time.
IIRC the multi’ v4s already have springs.
race engines are likely to remain desmo anyway, see utopia’s comment on valve float/bounce.

[Kato]

Originally Posted by slob

it’s all about reducing servicing costs/intervals, when you buy a desmo and find that you’re paying double what your mates on other marques are paying annually, it’s going to make significant numbers buy an R1,Gixxer, ‘blade etc next time.
IIRC the multi’ v4s already have springs.
race engines are likely to remain desmo anyway, see utopia’s comment on valve float/bounce.

Can't dissagree with any of that Rob, but where does it stop, if they just changed the color and stuck a Ducati logo on the side of a BMW F900XR and called it a Monster would that be OK ???

You only have to look at Lamborgini as I mentioned before to see there way of thinking, example a Lamborgini Urus is 100% Audi Q8 in a different set of clothes with a 100k price hike

Take it a stage further the Bentley Bentayga, Porsche Cayenne and the Volkswagen Touareg are basically the exact same vehicle, so Audi's way of doing things is clear

Make everything identical change colour and badge that dictates price, so what then is the point of a Bentayga when you can have the same car but called Toureg for a 1/4 of the cost

[stopintime]

Around fifteen, twenty years and all the way back to the beginning, Ducati was about pride. Pride because they, even as an under dog, were able to make winning race bikes - cool and sexy.

Once they no longer were the under dog, they changed from pleasing customers by being extraordinary to focusing what they can get away with.

Very sad, really.

[slob]

kalex chassis, triumph motor, choice of yamaha, honda, ktm, gas-gas stickers etc. etc.

the whole motor industry has been doing it for 40 years, renault/nissan whatever, fiat panda with jeep stickers…